Crusader 454

I'm not sure why they have not fixed it. They've reflected the non running in the price, almost discounted enough that an engine swap is possible and still future profitable. I've had a Donzi fixation since the 1980's, love the classic line, the Minx 20, Criterion's, etcetera. So watch that market very closely. I have a thing for late 60's to early 80's jet boats and Vdrives, on up to the big bad go fast types, and even earlier woodies. I've toyed with the idea of setting up a small business selling these.

Have you ever ridden in one? I had an 18 Donzi classic with a 350 vortech and the huge k-planes. Once you get past about 35 mph they start chine walking from side to side, as well as the bow bounces up and down. Down here in ft. laud, by the time you got it trimmed right you had to slow down for the next no wake zone.

Anyways, I'd look to either the fuel pump or spark. Even if the carb was bad it should "try" to fire. It could also be a bad safety shut down (the one you hook the lanyard to).

Owned a 22, looked at a few 18's, but do find your right about the ride. In that series the X18 from the 1970's was/is better for the size.

I'll be checking a few things, and try to get it going. If not I'll probably drop in a used rebuilt 496HO--slightly better for smaller boats over the bigger heavier older 454.

I browse and search craiglist often for these things. If I find a good deal I'll buy it, clean up and resell usually at a profit.

The second boat I'm looking at tomorrow is also a 454:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/2291693644.html

More fun than a jet ski, but like all in this size range, well they get boring after an hour or two using them.

best craigs search tool: http://boat.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/boat.cgi

Here is an article on the Crusader:
Marine Engines : Gas Engines - by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor

More important than fuel cost is TIME. Generally, if used less than 300 hours/yr., gas engines are cheaper than diesel.

$3.18 a gallon? where? or how old was that picture?

You can not compare diesel / gas engines by looking at the cost of it's fuel.
The use, cost, service intervals, mttboh and other things make better comparable points.

However, I have re-powered boats from large block gas to small diesels and these boats go faster, burn less fuel and are safer.

If your considering buying a gas boat these days, Don't spend much. You will never see that money again.

Crusader vs Mercruser Gas Engines

I'm actually considering the purchase of a Chris Craft motor yacht with gas engines, but I don't know much about these big marine gas engines. So this reference came in handy to describe the difference between these two 454cc providers.

I was looking at two identical CC Catalina 426's today, one with Crusaders, one with Mercs. The Mercs did appear to be smaller engines, but I guess that relates to the differences in their cooling water systems.

I also ask the broker if he knew of any after market modifications that could be made to the ignition systems. He knew of none in particular, but I just posted a message concerning my past experiences with adding a CD ignition to conventional gas engines.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/technical-discussion/20951-crusader-454-ignition.html#post187141

Marine Gas Engine Life

I saw a number of references to gas engine life expectancy in this article....
Marine Engines : Gas Engines - by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor

...but what surprised me is nothing about 'engine hours' of life??

I know that many marine engines are equipped with 'hour meters', and certainly there sure be some approximates as to engine life in man-hours.

How about it, any folks want to contribute their figures to that subject?? I've been told to avoid anything with over 1500 hours on it as likely they all requires rebuilding or replacement as they approach 1800-2000 hours. ??

Brian,

Assuming that both sets of inboards are freshwater cooled. On the Crusaders the risers are raw water cooled and only those have to be changed every 4-5 years. On Mercruisers, the manifolds and risers are raw water cooled (even on a FWC motor) and need to be changed every 4-5 years, if used in Saltwater. A 42' is really taxing a set of gas inboards if you're going to run the boat on plane a lot.

It's been my observation that the motoryacht versions don't get run at planing RPM's very often, if ever.

I am a LBC fan. Been a while since my hands have been in them. From the 70s, The Crusaders were always the package of choice for cruisers. Manifolds, heat exchangers, common parts for the raw water pump, hoses and hang on equipment just seemed to make more sense and were easier to service.
I have seen mis-matches between Volvo Penta, Mercuiser, Marine Power and Crusader in regards to the 2 & 4 bolt main bearing cap topic. I do not believe Crusader only used the 4 bolt cap. I had a Fin with 350hp LBCs and they were 2 bolt cap Crusaders. My pay grade does not allow for the understanding of how/why/when 2 vs 4 bolt caps were used/not used in any marine conversions.
My observations are simple and down to earth, the Crusader marinized engines just seemed to last longer and cheaper to repair. For a gas powered cruiser, I would prefer them.
I'm still a big diesel fan, but large block Gas does have a place in the marine engine market.

I hate them with a passion. Every yacht I've ever managed with gas inboards with the exception of a few has been a problem child. Several of them were always overheating, even after cleaning all of the Heat Exchangers. Other ones had intermittent spark problems or fuel problems. There are so many different components they rely on to go wrong. Not to mention their cooling systems don't have a lot of excess capacity. Everything has to be exchanging heat very close to it's 100% clean capacity. Look at the newer ones, they have 2 electric fuel pumps, several different spark components to go bad, etc etc. They weren't designed to be run 3500 rpm's all day long pushing something as heavy as a city bus, like a lot of the boats they're crammed into.

As for the 2 bolt main and 4 bolt main blocks. They marinized what chevrolet made for that HP rating at the time. 4 bolt main is a stronger block, yet I've never seen a 2 bolt main block break in a normal marine setting (non race-boat). You'd be surprised what you can ring out of a 2 bolt block and cast crank. I made 638HP out of a 302 ford in a 1993 Mustang Cobra with a stock 2 bolt block (with a girdle added) and stock cast crank, and it stayed together for 38,000 miles before splitting 3 of the mains in the block. It was still running fine when I took it out but had developed a vibration as the girdle was the only thing holding it together.....LOLOLOL

Thanks for that Capt J.

Now how about if you were just going to 'trawler around'. No top speeds here, just move the boat from place to place for a different setting of liveaboard, or just coastal cruising.

Could you run a vessel like that on just one engine at times, without getting proper lubrication to the idle transmission/gearbox? I had heard of cases where one would not want a 'free-wheeling' shaft to be turning the gearbox without the engine being operated??

Engine Surveyor

Anyone know of a good engine surveyor up in the Annapolis, Kent Island, Eastern Shore area??

What is the general available of non-ethanol fuel for boats??

No, the boat is propped with the intentions of running both motors. Running one is going to overload the single motor and make it live a short life. You can run both below plane speed and get decent fuel burn at say 10 knots. Run them up once or twice a day for a little bit and you should be fine. Some gearboxes are self lubricating, some are not. Dripless shafts are almost always cooled by the raw water pump on the engine.

Compression test and a good sea trial/visual inspection underway with an IR gun should be about all you need on a pair of 454's. Some hull surveyors are equipped do compression tests, etc on gas engines.

Gas Engine Survey

I would think the primary inspection items for the engines is of course the compression test, and the cooling system performance.
1) Compression Test....self explanatory

2) Cooling System
a) Impellers in salt water portion (imagine the fresh water side is much like automobile engines?)
b) condition of zincs in heat exchangers
c) any clogging of heat exchangers (possible difficult to determine interior condition??)

3) I would imagine it would be difficult to determine value guide conditions?

Anything else?

That was what I was wondering about these gearboxes in particular?
Good point about shaft bearings.

Gas inboard parts like zincs are cheap. On a typical survey, you'll do a compression check, run them at cruise speed and check all 4 exhaust riser temps after 5-10 mins of running at cruise, run them WOT for 5 mins (10 mins at most) and see what top RPM's are as well as what the coolant temperature does, oil pressure, etc. It is not standard to inspect heat exchangers inside, pull impellors or other things as part of the survey. Impellors are typically $35-50 each for gas inboards.......Usually you don't have valve guide problems on 454's and you'll see that on a dead cold startup if you have blue smoke for the first 1-2 minutes.

Preliminary Engine Check

I realize that this is the procedure on a 'typical survey'. But what if one wanted to determine the general condition of the engines before getting involved in the 'total survey'? Would it be unreasonable or prudent to ask that a in-water, dockside, preliminary check of the engines be performed prior to going forward with the rest of the survey??

I'm talking a thorough compression check of engines and generator, and a visual observation of the proper coolant flow. Then a run-up at dockside to check for any overheating.

Upon accepting this 'first stage' of the survey, then proceed with the full survey, having satisfied oneself that the engines are in proper working order. That way one does not get to the hauling-out portion, unless that is warranted. Has anyone seen a survey performed in this manner?? Naturally the contract has been written and a deposit made prior to all portions of the survey including this preliminary check on the engines.

I figure the zincs were cheap. I just figured the condition of the existing zincs might give some indication of last maintanence that was performed?

I guess the water flow volume is a 'viewable' thing and if any problems exist, the first check is the salt water impellers. If that doesn't help matters then one has to suspect the heat exchangers themselves?

That's what I figured, as its usually a sign of valve guide ware.