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MTU 8V's ???

Discussion in 'Engines' started by 52 Golden Egg, Nov 27, 2013.

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  1. 52 Golden Egg, Nov 27, 2013
    #1
    52 Golden Egg

    52 Golden Egg New Member

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    Nov 27, 2013
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    Middle River Md
    Purchased a Florida based 52 Golden Egg back in March of 2013.

    She was built in 1999, and MarineMax marketed the Yacht saying she had rebuilds. Finally got her into Maryland mid June and as with any used boat, dealt with issue after issue.

    Feel I did well on the purchase price, so we had no problem dropping another 50K on her to get the boat aesthetically revised to our liking BECAUSE we assumed the motors were sound.

    We had a great Cummins mechanic, but he is not capable of working on MTU's and needless to say, dealt with one Corp based yahoo MTU mechanic after another since June. After investing 15K in misc "bring motors up to speed type maintenance", I still don't know what to think about these MTU's.

    MTU model 8V 183 TE 93, Port listed at 1400 hours, Starboard at 1475.

    Long story short, boat ran all summer with minimal mechanical concerns. All appeared well UNTIL I drove the boat to her winter storage location just the other day after sitting for two months.

    Bay was flat, air temps in the 30's perfect day, yet I noticed a continued smoke issue even after heat up to 180. She sometimes would belch minor amounts of black smoke here and there over summer months when I would lay into the throttles, only to then quit, yet that did not happen this time. LARGE amounts of White smoke was constant and now add even black smoke here and there.

    And here lay's my problem. Received a call this morning from the marina manager charged with winterization and NOW he says the Starboard smoking motor has a "knock" upon start up. Personally assumed the smoke was a injector issue, and he feels I could be dealing with much greater problems.

    As I stated above, 15K to Johnson Towers only to say motors appeared sound. Oil tests during survey checked, and engine mechanic who reviewed in Florida also signed off.

    Does anyone have a educated guess on the White & Black smoke, knocking and add any personal thoughts on MTUs.

    Owned Boats since I was 19. From 19 foot checkmates with 350 gas, to 44 SeaRay's with Cummins and never once have I felt a need to hit forums for advice, but I wonder, what kind of a mess did I get myself in this time around.
  2. Capt Ralph, Nov 27, 2013
    #2
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I am feared you have dropped a valve.
    You next head-ache is finding a MTU shop you can believe in and trust.
  3. 52 Golden Egg, Nov 27, 2013
    #3
    52 Golden Egg

    52 Golden Egg New Member

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    Location:
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    You nailed it. Johnson Towers is the ONLY company who works on MTU's and they reside in Jersey, where my boat is in Maryland.

    Never dealt with a thrown valve, yet don't sound good. Super expensive type repair???
  4. karo1776, Nov 27, 2013
    #4
    karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I am not an MTU expert by a long long shot... but here is my suggestion.

    Your regular Cummins guy or really any good diesel mechanic or even you should be able to remover the injectors and reinstall... and bleed the system as those are routine maintenance operations.

    First, because of the knock issue and you don't want to run the engines to warm up... Borescope the cylinders. See my posts on the Cat C-18 engine rebuild... here are the links

    These are done by a very professional service tech by the way...!
    This one is a borescope looky see of a C18
    Marine engine inside - YouTube

    This is the above C18 from borescope check through rebuild
    CAT C18 Rebuilding ~ Réfection moteur CAT C18 - YouTube

    This is a 3406... which has dropped a valve
    Amazing Engine Inside (What's wrong doctor?) - YouTube


    Second, while you got the borescope out then borescope the crankcase. This way you can see the underside of the pistons for cracks not visible from the top, cylinders to check for scoring not visible from the top, and for other obvious issues.

    These should indicate if the engines have a serious mechanical problem that should be corrected before being run again. If everything looks ok then I would...

    Third, if everything appears good to a professional doing the scoping then do both a leak down and compression test. But note leak down and compression tests really should be done on warm motors but you can do on cold motor in a pinch to get ball park because you already got the injectors out.
  5. 52 Golden Egg, Nov 27, 2013
    #5
    52 Golden Egg

    52 Golden Egg New Member

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    Karo,

    Thanks for the advice. Unfortunate, I am the worse kind of boater but a mechanics dream, as I have two left hands that like to work in reverse of each-other, so scoping and such= well outside my pay grade.

    I will certainly take the recommendations into account once we get someone on board to inspect the issue.

    Failed to do my homework on MTU's. Had to clue it was such a difficult brand to maintain in Maryland. Hoping to find it is a solid motor that's just a pain in the @#$ to get qualified mechanics on.
  6. Capt J, Nov 27, 2013
    #6
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It does sound like a bad injector washed out a cylinder liner. Anytime you have an injector issue change it immediately. But this may not necessarily be the case. I have been running a set of 8v183's for a few years now and we put a good amount of hours on them (300 in 2 years) at cruise. They're kind of a pain to work on, but not very complicated motors. They're pretty much the same as 12v183's. Anyone familiar with diesel engines should be able to work on them. They're also similar Mans in many ways. First thing I'd have all of the injectors taken out, then turn the motor over and see if there's anything (fuel/water/etc) in any of the cylinders, then bore scope them. I had a similar issue with one knocking a little at idle, putting it in gear etc, and it turned out one of the nuts that tightens a fuel line to the injector was split.
  7. 52 Golden Egg, Nov 27, 2013
    #7
    52 Golden Egg

    52 Golden Egg New Member

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    Cap J- since you own MTU's, do you also deal with more than average "diesel motor smoke"? Just reading forums, I hear Sale boaters hate them. Old Smokey used more than once, and my Cummins never smoked like these do.

    Also, what type of life should be assumed between minor upkeep versus major overhaul?

    I tried allowing Johnson Towers to be my day in day out Mechanic, but they bill ya each time I a text is sent. Corp based mechanics like JT are not mechanically inept boater friendly and I am finding to know less and less real info about these motors.

    Boat sat for almost 2 years with MarineMax before I purchased in March. Since then, I paid to change all belts, fluids, filters etc..
  8. Belle, Nov 27, 2013
    #8
    Belle

    Belle Member

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    Sailboaters hate all engines. It's in the oath they take. Well, except when it gets them in......so sort of love/hate relationships.
  9. sunchaserv, Nov 27, 2013
    #9
    sunchaserv

    sunchaserv Member

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    Post your questions on boatdiesel.com especially asking for an MTU mechanic reference in your locale.
  10. Capt J, Nov 27, 2013
    #10
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Under 1000 rpms they're stinky, not really very smokey except on startup and for the first 15-20 minutes. It's just the way they are, you could try changing injector/nozzles......all of the fuel metering is done at the high pressure pump. I manage the yacht that has them. They run smooth at cruise and the yacht I run with them likes to cruise at 2000 rpms and burns just under 65gph (both at that speed). They should go 5-6000 hrs before a major. Keep a good eye on the exhaust manifolds as they used rubber-like o-rings to seal where the exhaust manifold meets the cylinder heads and they all started leaking and we had to yank the exhaust off and change them. There has to be a local guy that is familiar with them......
  11. Capt Ralph, Nov 27, 2013
    #11
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Sitting for 2 years is not good. I have witnessed valve seats take on a little tint of rust, when they get run, a hot spot appears on the valve edge, then they crack. Grey smoke with unburned diesel in the exhaust, The salt air that comes up the exhaust system is not thought of much but kills engines usually do to lack of use.
    I'm sure after 13 years all the extended warranties are long gone, but, was there any aftermarket warranties when you purchased the boat?

    Follow sunchaserv note also.
  12. K1W1, Nov 28, 2013
    #12
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The MTU 183 Engines are actually Mercedes industrial/automotive engines that have been marinised and had their branding changed to MTU.

    A lot used to be done by Wiesmann Marine in Stuttgart before MTU got fully involved in them.

    A capable mechanic who is experienced with any hi speed 4 stroke diesel engines should be able to do a compression test and remove , rebuild, refit the cylinder heads if required on these engines.

    A chipped exhaust valve will normally give a distinct popping sound in the exhaust and an increase in white smoke will probably be evident caused by a reduction in the compression to ignite the fuel charge.

    A faulty injector that cracks off at too low a pressure or does not atomise properly can lead to the cyl line being hit with wet fuel and a subsequent breakdown in the lubrication film, this can cause pitons to pick up ( melt through friction)
  13. SeaEric, Nov 28, 2013
    #13
    SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    It may be worth a call to Tom Hug, MR Power. Since MR = Middle River, he's right in your neighborhood. He really knows his stuff. You can find his info in Google, or PM me and I will give you his #.

    If I may ask, where did you take her for Winter?
  14. baltimore bob, Nov 29, 2013
    #14
    baltimore bob

    baltimore bob Member

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    J&T has always had a Baltimore branch:

    500 Wilson Point Road
    Baltimore, MD 21220
    410-687-0500
    800-479-3677 Parts
    410-687-5137 Fax