12v92 seized

Hi,

That is a real prophet of doom statement.

Not knowing what has seized the engine or anything about the boat it seems a little extravagant to suggest rebuilding both don't you think till more is known at least.

It's not a statement, it's a question. What condition is it in and how long has the boat been sitting with a blown engine? The OP is PURCHASING this boat, he does not own it yet if you read his origional post. The boat may have been sitting in this condition for a long time. I'm basically telling him to plan for the worst and hope for the best and pay for the boat accordingly or based upon worst case scenario. If the seller maintained this vessel properly, he would already be rebuilding or have rebuilt the seized 12v92.

He didn't give us much else information to go on. However, if they're 12v92's and have been sitting a while, neglected (especially with coolant changes), have a good amount of hours on them. It would be wise to rebuild both at the same time, since you're tearing the salon apart, paying to remove and replace the cockpit window, and yard fees to have it sit there and everything else. The worst case would be the guy rebuilds the one, puts it all back together, and 2 trips later the other one grenades. If the OP said the port engine surveyed fine on seatrial and the stbd grenaded then that's a totally different story. The only way I've seen a Detroit seize was a total lack of oil and spun main bearings resulting from running it that way. Very Rarely do you ever see an issue with the bottom end on a Detroit causing a rebuild.....heck I've run a lot of 12v71's where at idle the oil pressure alarm would come on because the pressure was below 5lbs and they ran many years that way........

CaptJ is right on the question of why is the engine seized. Either it has rusted into place which means the other engine may not be far behind or some major catastrophic failure occurred. Also that long block from J&T doesn't include any of the marinization parts (ironically from J&T). So the boat may need another $10k in heat exchangers and mixing elbows. Can't (easily) test that transmission on a seized engine either.

All this simply means that the boat needs to be purchased at a price reflecting the possible need for two engines within a year and the resulting delay in using it.

The other side of the coin is there is a 54' Bertram in Miami that is basically just a hull and superstructure without any running gear for $35k. You could go into that boat and put new cats, running gear, fuel tanks etc......and be in it probably for around $400k or so with new everything.....if you do it right.

Or
a comparable in negotiating the price of what your looking at.

No way @ $400K for a shell of a boat, even if you do ALL the labor yourself.

You need to check pricing on that stuff, an owner doing a solo project is not going to get much of a price break on engines/controls/gears/foundations/ all the underwater hardware, electrical/wiring/panels not to mention interior finishing and paint.

How much to you think a pair of C-18's with all the associated equipment go for anyways?

I agree with Pac. I was looking at a 58 hatt a couple months ago with 16v92 that seemed like they were on their way out. I spoke with a few local guys who specialized in re-powers and i was given rough numbers of 250k to re-power that boat. With a purchase price of $50k (including taxes moving the boat etc) for this 54' you are at $300k for a shell and a couple engines. Add the generator, paint job, electronics, interior, AC systems and your are probably at $500k.

Actually it's down to $15k or make offer for a 1982 Bertram and has the running gear, fuel tanks, new glasstech bulkhead, has most of the interior in it, windows. The boat is not completely stripped.
1982 Bertram 54' - MAKE OFFERS! Power Boat For Sale - www.**************

The other side of the coin is there is a 1999 54' Bertram with freshly rebuilt CAT 3412's in Texas for $369k and has a tower and looks like a well kept boat according to the pics 1999 Bertram 54 Convertible Power Boat For Sale - www.**************

A set of CAT C 18's from cat should be around $150k.

More like $230K ($100/hp) for a new set of engines/gears/controls/harnesses ready to be installed in that power class, and that would be a "friendly" price.

You have a better chance at someones inventory engines, but would still have to play the game to find the right gear ratio set-up.

What a dream;
If I had the time, money ,time, support, time, good contacts, money, time, good yard and help, young back,,, did I mention allot of time & money,,,
I'd love to jump on that 54 in Miami.
I'd probably fly all over the country looking at 54s and any mods that have been installed, take the best of all ideas and build (rebuild) the best 54 to be found. It would probably be personal, bed size, head height, bar height, electronics at my eye level and custom fighting seat contoured for my back (side). Custom decor to keep wife (&/or girlfriend) happy.
Drawback may be to re-sell her as she may not fit anybody else.

Ahh; Dream, Time & Money

Ok, so lets add it up.
Price of boat $10k
New Engines/gears etc $230k another option is reman'ed 3412s possibly cheaper
installation/misc. $20k (There are no old engines to remove).
2 new generators installed $40k
Complete repaint $50k
So far you're at $350k...... you still have some interior, might as well replace fuel tanks, electrical, electronics, and a lot of miscellaneous.......so $400k might be a little cheap......$500k it can be done and done right.....with everything new, if you don't go overboard with un-neccessary do-dads and bling. $600k if you want to go really nice again without unneccessary bling.....

I would agree, someplace between 500-600k to refurb. this thing. Everyone has different preferences but i would much rather buy a 2000+ Viking/Hatteras for that money and not deal with the mess and down time of a refurb. But the biggest problem i personally have with these rebuilds are that you will NEVER get back the money you put in at time of sale. Even if you sold it the day after you finished you will take a bath.

At the same time i do understand the enjoyment in building your own boat.

Such is true. There are pro's and con's to everything. With the old Bertram you'd have brand new machinery and have it pretty much your way and a classic. If you plan on keeping her 5-10 years, the new machinery and lack of getting 1/3 or so of your money back would be worth it. You could also buy the 1999 one with rebuilt 3412's for an asking price of $369k..... I've had several owners that put 3x what a classic is worth into it, to completely refurbish it because they enjoy the refurbishing/rebuilding part......

If you buy a 2000' + Viking or Hatteras and keep the same 5-10 years, you'll probably lose close to the same on resale........and have stuff you'll probably end up fixing and maintaining along the way, with a newer hull design. I can say this much, the 2000's 54' Hatteras' run very well in a sea.

Hi All:
I'm currently rebuilding 2 12V-92's in a 58 Viking. The owner bought the boat with 1 (sorta running) engine. After taking a bath from some previous idiot and 10k into it he decided to find someone who could do the job right. The boat came up to Stockton from the Bay Area on 1 engine. The port engine was torn completely down before we got it. A total disaster, parts everywhere. One of the cams had failed. We took a compression test, then pulled down air box covers on the starboard engine for inspection. Compression was low and the wear grove in the top rings were gone.

The owner decided to rebuild both engines. New kits, rods, heads with new new valves and springs also running gear (cam followers, rocker arms), vibration dampeners, rebuilt blowers, governors, turbos, water pumps and injectors. Main and rod bearings. The four cams were replaced on the port engine without removing the rear flywheel housing. The cranks were in good shape.

The owner will be in at approx 125k for both engines.

I would not hesitate to overhaul those 92's in the boat as long as the cranks are good condition. It would be another thing if the seized engine is from lack of oil, spun bearings etc... Then you have another huge expense getting the engine out.

Your biggest problem is going to be able to find qualified DD techs, not many of us around any more.

As a side note getting ready to pull 2 8V-92 DDEC's out of a Sea Ray for complete overhaul. The owner bought the boat right at 25k with 1 engine full of coolant.

As to someones comment about doing the other engine at the same time, if you have money it would make sense. Now you know the history!!! Not relying on someone else's BS.

If you can get it to Ensenada MX you can ship by freighter to Ft Lauderdale then lots of DD guys there...

There's no other way, besides shipping it on a freighter or running it on it's own bottom. When you factor in the price of the shipping and engine repairs, then you might be able to buy a newer running one for the same total cost if you find one on the east coast. You can get one with only a Hardtop, through the Erie Canal to MI without doing too too much to it.

Talk to one of the bigger yacht dealers in the Great Lakes about trucking boats. Plenty of fresh water GL boats are sold to west coast customers and trucked. You will have to breakdown the tower and bridge, and get it down to a load height of less than 17' - 4" or maybe even further below that number. Lots of boats are still trucked from and into the Great Lakes areas, you just have to find the right carrier.

Or better yet, contact Tiara, Marquis/Carver or Crusiers and ask which carrier they use.

There asleep in Italy now.