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AC Compressor going bad

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by CSkipR, Oct 27, 2013.

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  1. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    The boat is an 05 with two units. Both FX-16C P/M52. Before going to the Bahamas earlier this year I had both units serviced, that was in April. AC tech said the one unit was probably going to go crap out soon because of the noise it was making and it needed some freon. As of today it is still cooling although the compressor gets pretty hot (140deg). Haven't had to add any freon to date. I'm sure sometime soon I may need to replace the compressor although don't want to replace the whole condensing unit. He quoted me a price to replace the condensing unit of $3600 +-. The air handler for that unit was replaced last year. He recommends replacing the whole unit and I don't see doing that. Overall condition of this condensing unit is good. Your opinions.
    Thanks, Skip
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If the compressor goes bad, it's going to send debris through the entire unit and air handler. How big is the unit? $3600 sounds high especially if you're not replacing the air handler. At '05 you could change the compressor, but it's getting close to 10 years and it's a question as to how long the heat exchanger will last. You may be throwing good money after bad in 3-5 years. A compressor should run run you about $800-1000 installed.
  3. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    Capt J,
    So you recommend buying and replacing the old compressor before it totally goes. Yes I agree that price is high and I found a new condensing unit for substantially less than he quoted. The unit is 16k and is a cruiseair (dometic).
    Also was told by tech this unit is no longer made and to upgrade may even be more.
    Skip
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    To make sure, you have split systems? C model means 230vac.
    Tecumseh R22, AK replacement compressors @ 16 & 14kbtu are getting near imposable to find in 115vac. Think 12kbtu still out there. The 230vac compressors are not far from price increases and off the shelfs soon also.
    Getting a whole R410A condensing station, reclaiming the R410 and charging with R22 works well. Just has to be done before the system gets trashed (if not already) when the compressor cuts loose.

    Then making your controls work with a new condensing station.

    The tech did NOT ad any freon when serviced? So what was he servicing. A low freon level will make a compressor run hotter (as stated in our earlier post). Has the paint discolored yet?

    When the dust settles, $3600 is a good price assuming that's including install and your controls. I can figure who quoted you and that's about rite from them. Same shop also sells good used stations when they get them. However, used equipment does not carry a long warranty (if any) and if it trashes your evap station, could cost more.

    The luxuries of A/C is expensive.

    Shop on-line and find NOS. Make sure it 60HTZs.
  5. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    Its 230vac. He did ad some freon in April. He was going over all refrigeration appliances before the trip. Paint has been slightly discolored for awhile. Temp on top of compressor is running 140 degrees other one 100. Yes it may need Freon I will put the gauges on it this week.
    I don't want to have to change controls and have different freon in each unit. Will look around for a new compressor.
    That $3600 price seems high since you can buy a total new condensing unit for $1900 so thats $1700 for labor. Little high IMO. Everyone has to make a profit but that seems a little excessive for the time to complete job. Here's the compressor number. AKA8515EXD
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Dealers have to purchase what they need from their suppliers and keep the scrodum line intact. DIYrs have more wallet room to work with. So if you are shopping on line, make sure it a 60HTZ unit. The market up north & west is flooded with 50HTZ units. Some compressors will work both ways, some don't. AND, At that price, there is not much protection on your equipment or warranties from the factory.

    Either way, protect that evap unit.

    Also, I have replaced two of my ships split systems with slightly newer and larger self contained systems. Seems to be working very well for us in those locations. My other systems have to stay remote.
  7. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    This is an out of state dealer and is a 60htz 230v unit.
  8. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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  9. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    @ CSkipR, 140F is a normal temperature for a AC compressor to run at.

    @ rcrapps While R22 is considered a high pressure refrigerant ,R410 is 100 to 150 psig higher. The compressors run at a different pressure ratio and you should use a refrigerant designed for the compressor.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I have seen noisy compressors that are running just fine for years....

    I have never seen a compressor leak gas, it is usually one of the charging valve or the air handler that has the leak, or one of the connections at the air handler. If your tech is pushing a new condensing unit without having checked th whole system with a sniffer... Get another one! If he added gas but don't look for the source of the leak... Get a new tech!

    As to running hot, I ve seen compressor running cooler than others, and all running fine. First, when is the last time the system was descaled. That will affect temp. And also, if the system is a little low, the compressor will run a little hotter.

    If the rest of the system is in good shape, and IF the compressor fails, I'd replace just the compressor. They should be able to vacuum the system and clean it up. Every failed compressor I've had replaced has always lasted as long as the original one. If your guy knows what he s doing, replacing a failed compressor is not a problem, and much cheaper.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Given the information above, I'd run it till it dies, if it does. But I would check to where the freon is going.......It could be going out the heat exchanger and into the saltwater and no leak detector will detect anything.
  12. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    AC Compressor

    Thanks guys for the input. Put some freon in yesterday and it is cooling and running fine. First time doing that by myself so it was another learning experience. Going to have a friend who is an ac tech (home ac) come and put some dye in the line to find the leak. Hopefully then he will be able to fix leak without removing unit. Either way I will know where the leak is. Once leak is fixed will plan to run the noisy compressor till it quits.
    Thanks,
    Skip
  13. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    Any place refrigerant leaks you'll see oil also, that's a good indicator. It circulates through the system with the refrigerant .Refrigerant doesn't wear out or need replaced unless there is either a leak or a compressor burnout. that's when the winding get fried and that contaminates the oil & refrigerant that moves though the entire system. That requires a system flush,
    "new oil & refrigerant.

    Someone installing the wrong capacitor can make a compressor run louder talking higher decibels, vibration & it may use more electricity.(you should check that). You should use the manufacturer specs, but you can go 10% up or down in microfarad in a pinch, the international rating is uF. , microfarad & uF mean the same. Be sure the voltage rating of a capacitor is at least 270v to 440v for a 230-240v compressor. A higher voltage rating on a capacitor won't hurt a thing, it will just cost a little more.

    Another post was talking about the availability of R22 compressors. After January 1 2010 all new equipment has to be R410. There is a large inventory of R22 compressors, TEV valves, CPV valves and other parts online for sale. R22 been around for a long time. You can repair existing R22 equipment ,you just can't buy entire new R22 systems anymore.

    CSkipR if you run into any problems ,just ask here I would be happy to talk you through them. The only problem is in the HVAC field you can spend quit a bit of money up front on specialty tools if you want to become a DIY guy in this field.

    By the way you can get a 608 certification / for class I refrigerants(units with less than 5 pounds of refrigerant) or 608/ type II (units with more than 5 pounds of refrigerant) online. The certificate will allow you to recover and buy refrigerants legally in the USA. The online test is about 30 bucks and will take about 4 hours to read the material and take the test.. It's a open book test that you need to score 80% on. To get a type III or universal (covers all refrigerants) like to work work on low pressure refrigerants like anhydrous ammonia, you need certified instructor time and a proctored test. You don't need a type III.

    Good luck on your repair.:)-

    If you want a great place to start HVAC/R/E 101 buy this book.

    "Modern Refrigeration and Air Conditioning" by

    Andrew D. Althouse
    Carl Hturnquist &
    Alfred F. Bracciano

    I posted the authors names because there is another book with the same title by other authors, not as good). While this is no "marine" AC book, it covers all HVAC/R/E (Heating/Ventilation/Air conditioning/Refrigeration/& Electrical. With all the fundamentals, theory, tools needed , wiring diagrams, schematics. etc... the only main difference in marine use is a water cooled heat exchanger is used to condense the refrigerant in AC but many other refrigeration units use air cooled. , Once you get the basics down, systems won't seem overwhelming to a DIY guy. You can usually find them used on ebay for 25 to 40 dollars used, if you want to save a few bucks over a new edition. Don't buy a book that the copyright is more than 3 or 4 years old or they won't include all the new refrigerants. If you dabble in refrigeration or AC or if you just want to learn, "this will be the best investment you ever make" for knowledge in this field. It's over a 1000 pages .

    Walt
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    +1 for that book

    Hi,

    I have a 1982 edition of this book, what a great resource it was when I was first started in the business.
  15. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

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    My first edition is 1979.:)
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Yep,,,
  17. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Did you add some oil, also?

    Keeps the seals sealed - refrig coolant will last longer in system.
  18. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

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    I have recently replaced compressors on many Dometic 16k units. It cost me around USD 300.00 for replacing the compressor and the rebuilt units work great. All the replacement compressors used R22.