What happens to power boating when we run out of oil?

In cars you have government subsidies on purchase, road tax, parking, road tolls and electricity or green fuel, at least here. Otherwise they shouldn´t sell a single electric, hybrid or biofuel car.

It is hard to believe a government would subsidize boats the same way. So I think the market is very very small as long as we have access to fossil fuel.

Again I don't think we are anywhere near needing an alternative to the combustion engine, but if I were content to putt along at 5 knots and installed a battery operated engine I would use all sources necessary to recharge. I would use solar panels, a couple vertical wind turbines and build a few water turbines into the hull. That way you would be generating power constantly. Even when on the hook the tidal currents would be turning the underwater turbines.

I don't know about that. More and more people run e85 in race cars because it performs better than c16 at a 10th of the cost. I run propane in my sand rail, as do quite a few others. I learned about it from the old timers when I was a kid. Burns cooler than gas and higher octane, great for tweeked aircooled VW engines. I've got around $100 worth of used forklift parts as a fuel system on a turbo charged 2332 VW at about 360hp. You don't get government aid for racing. Biodiesel is very popular among diesel performance enthusiasts. Since they took all the sulfur out of our road diesel, pump wear has gone crazy. Biodiesel lubricates better than the old high sulfur diesel, so all is good if you can find it. Quite a few green fuels are considerably better than what is at the pump, but until the engines are built for it, it will remain less popular.

OK, I should have said bifuel, not biofuel. We have subsidies on ethanol, but not on biodiesel, which is what we mostly get in the pump today...

You are driving a lot then, I am spending a total of $1.000/year on fuel for my nine cars...

Ok, that would make more sense. We have different blends for biodiesel, b5, 7 and 10 are common at the pump, but the higher percentages aren't as common.

Personally, I would like to see diesels on the market that use propane on top of diesel. Propane cleans up diesel exhaust smoke, and drops egt's

I average about 150k miles a year, just street vehicles. Number varies, every time I build a nice car, someone keeps shoving cash in my face until I sell it. Then I build a nicer one and it happens again.

You asked Neil, but I do find that idea appealing even though it probably doesn't cost justify itself for most people.

Personally, I've not done much toward energy conservation and it's not that my wife and I haven't looked and tried. We'd love to do some solar on our home, but the home we purchased makes it outrageously expensive to even consider as our roofs would have to be totally redone. So failed there. As to cars, we looked, but we don't drive as much as many here do. We have our play cars (convertible sports cars) and not really a hybrid option there. We looked at Hybrid SUV's for ourselves and staff use. We didn't see anything we felt met our needs. We don't own a normal sedan which is where hybrid is most available.

As to boats I would love to have an electric limo type boat just for the days we want to stay in the ICW and Canals with our friends. The Solar Sailor concept appeals to me. The Horizon cat did as well. But all I see is ideas and designs and don't see actual boats being made available for purchase. I think the electric Duffy Norseman purchased is a cool boat.

It would be a valid criticism that we haven't chosen to make the sacrifices necessary to conserve energy. But we're not alone in that regard. Most who are interested want to make it with minimum sacrifice. If I was buying just a normal sedan I would almost certainly go hybrid. If my home design accommodated solar even with a poor payback I'd probably do it. I would love to have a system on my larger boat when I do purchase it similar to that on Marlow 97's. To me that's an excellent use of solar. It doesn't eliminate anything but it supplements extremely well.

Also, I love the concept I've seen on some boats with hybrid systems and the ability to go electric for slow speed. Just haven't seen this available on the boats I've considered and not about to be the innovator.

No susidies here in Australia, but my next car will be electric, so I don't think your reasoning is correct.

I think the sub-topics of diesel electric propulsion, and electric only propulsion, are getting mixed together here. The only reason diesel electric was mentioned was because it shows that electric motors are proven technology.

No, obviously diesel electric is not a fossil fuel free option.
Diesel electric is a proven technology in the marine industry (see every cruise ship you can name, for example), which means it isn't possible to argue that electric motors are an unproven tech. Only modern batteries are an unproven tech.
Diesel electric is more viable in large vessels than in small, because of the weight increase.
Some advantages of diesel electric:

• generator can be located anywhere in the vessel
• don't need a seperate generator for hotel services
• OR if you do have a seperate generator it can provide backup propulson
• far superior torque curve
• retro fitting to fully electric in the future would be relatively easy
• quiet under way when running from batteries
• easy to pair multiple generators with a single engine, or vice versa

There are disadvantages too, or course, but the best choice depends on the vessel, the role it fills, the envorinment it's in, and the owner.

Here are some diesel electric yachts:

Ice (yacht) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://y.co/yacht/kogo/


Ambrosia III | Benetti Yachts

Hybrid-electric Tag 60 yacht hits the water

http://au.**************/boats/2014...l-Electric-Yacht-2657370/Ukraine#.Um76oxQyaRI

http://www.charterworld.com/news/56...tor-yacht-project-561-designed-by-espen-oeino

The Trawler Yacht, NORTH COAST

The Move to Diesel Electric Propulsion

Newswire & Press Release / Diesel Electric Yacht Propulsion - Lagoon 420 - Boat/Yacht/Sailboat - The Catamaran Company | NewswireToday


Fully electric yachts are unproven because of their batteries, not their motors.

Also, a bit OT (apologies), there's a great review of the Tesla S from yesterday here for anyone interested: Review: Tesla Motors all-electric Model S is fast?but is it a good car? | Ars Technica

I live 2 hours (at 80mph) from the city. I do live 15 min from a racetrack that I have a membership at, at least once a week I go have fun in a street toy. I also restore cars, and do a lot of driving looking for future projects and parts. Also, testing and tuning eats up miles. I guess this year I've probably driven less, but I've done more flying. When I was road racing competitively and instructing, 250-300k a year wasn't hard to do, just in my tow rig.

Think of it more as 20 hours straight, twice a month, then maybe 200-300 miles a day. And a couple days a month when I say to hell with it, I'm gonna turn wrenches all day.

I think one of the point he was trying to make is that you would have not saved a penny without the subsidies or tax incentives- you would have spent quite a bit more instead.