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How to protect varnished teak cap-rails?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by david_japp, Nov 8, 2011.

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  1. T.T., Oct 24, 2013
    #61
    T.T.

    T.T. Senior Member

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    I agree with Capt. J. With any varnish system, the failures are generally seen at the joints first. Expansion and contraction due to temperature fluctuation extremes will not be tolerated well with West Epoxy over bare teak.
    If we are talking about stripping to bare teak, good results start with sound joints. Once the joints are sound, I use Smith's Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer.
    There is no blush in this very low viscosity sealer and it will wick into the teak and down into the joints. The best technique for this is explained in the above post #55. Traditional spar varnish such as Awlspar is a good building varnish that also will tolerate some expansion/contraction. The gloss retention is however not long lasting. For topcoats and maintenance coats, I like Epiphanes High Gloss. At the first sign of loss of gloss it's time to sand or scotch brite and recoat. This time between varies with the climate the boat operates in and if covers are used.
    I hope this helps!
  2. david_japp, Oct 24, 2013
    #62
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    West versus varnish on teak

    in my experience west is not a good idea on areas of teak that may get knocked and damaged as it's very hard and and liable to crack. It's is then very difficult to remove for repairs. I'd stick to trad oil based varnishes or try something like Coelan, which is a polyurethane which although initially very expensive does give a superb finish if applied correctly and (according to several test reports) has a prolonged life well in excess of 7 years. It's also very easy to repair in the event of damage. I've not had personal experience of Coelan on teak but I've had it on my 26ft 1938 mahogany Chriscraft for over 5 years now , through English winters and summers with no dimunition of shine or breakdown of surface. As mentioned in an earlier thread on this subject I'm about to use it on all the 240ft of teak cappings and rails on my recently rebuilt 62ft 1961 Feadship "TIKY " ( ex ALTO VOLANTE),

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  3. david_japp, Oct 24, 2013
    #63
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Vanish on teak

    I meant to add that we have gone right back to bare wood, and during the course of the refit of the rest of the boat we have ave been able to let teak to dry for over 12 months in heated conditions. When putting the rails back we left 4 mm expansion joints gaps between joints , filled with black flexible compound.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  4. T.T., Oct 24, 2013
    #64
    T.T.

    T.T. Senior Member

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    David,
    Coelan finish looks great! I can't wait to see how "TIKI" looks with this finish.
    Stabilizing the moisture content in a controlled environment is very beneficial for a good result. I am curious if anyone has used this finish dockside in everyday conditions.
    Also, leaving or adding a gap at the joints and filling that gap with flexible sealant is the ultimate solution to prevent varnish from cracking and allowing moisture intrusion. Most finish systems fail due to moisture under the varnish.
  5. david_japp, Oct 24, 2013
    #65
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Coelan

    Just applying coatings now. Hope to post some images of Tiky finished ..due in mid November ( so the yard assures me!)
  6. Hobbzee, Oct 27, 2013
    #66
    Hobbzee

    Hobbzee New Member

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    Hi David, I'm currently in the middle of a project using this epifanes one part varnish too but I have very limited knowledge of the product. I've applied the first few coats with a lot of thinners (50%, 25% then 15%) which has got a good amount of early build. I'm now applying more full coats trying to get a finish and was wandering what is a standard amount of coats to get it dead flat. It's looking like getting up to around 12-15, is that normal? Tiky looks great, I hope the project gets finished on time and look forward to seeing the photo's. Thanks.
  7. david_japp, Oct 27, 2013
    #67
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Varnish

    Hi
    I've used Epiphanes on a number classic sail boats and always been very happy with the results. I tend to put 5 or 6 coats, sometimes a couple more, on interior surfaces (normally using the "rubbed" finish) but in order to get a deep shine on exterior surfaces you'll need to apply at least 10 coats. As I'm sure you know, it's imperative to lightly rub down between each coat and then clean off with thinner/meths or white spirit and lint free cloth, use a top quality brush and not varnish when its too hot and never when it's damp or humid!

    I used to enjoy varnishing, especially my yawl Amokura, but it is time consuming to keep up and once let go, requires starting all over again and sanding back to bare wood. My current boat Tiky (ex Alto Volante) also has a fair amount of brightwork including 250ft of handrails and bulwark cappings but Im using Coelan on them.

    Hurricane on way!

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  8. Hobbzee, Oct 27, 2013
    #68
    Hobbzee

    Hobbzee New Member

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    Thanks for the tips David. Varnishing is such a back breaker sometimes. You say never varnish when it's damp or humid, will that lead to fish eyes if you do apply when it's humid? I've had a problem with this and have done everything to rid the surface of contamination and being a newby (especially to epifanes) I don't know where I'm going wrong. 250ft of hand rails must keep you busy! Do you apply extra coats to that every six months? She is a gorgeous looking boat so I imagine you're motivated to keep her looking as bright as you can :) Let's hope the storm isn't as bad as they say it's going to be!
  9. david_japp, Oct 27, 2013
    #69
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    hi...varnishing when damp (or too hot) will cause bloom ( a translucent milky finish)...extra coats twice a year . a light rub down and finish coat at start and end of season...250 ft hand rails is indeed a lot to keep up and handrails are very susceptible to damage, which is why Im using Coelan rather than Epiphanes as elsewhere on the boat ...it supposedly has a minimum 5 (possibly as high as 10) year interval before it needs redoing. we shall see!
  10. Hobbzee, Oct 27, 2013
    #70
    Hobbzee

    Hobbzee New Member

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    If that Coelan does last for potentially 10 years this is something I will have to look into. Thanks for the advice. All the best
  11. david_japp, Oct 27, 2013
    #71
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    traditional varnish v Coelan

    the Classic Boat Magazine tests Coelan at the very top of the league table - I've not had personal experience of it on teak yet, but I have had it on my 26ft 1938 mahogany 26ft ChrisCraft for over 5 years now. It is very expensive though..approx £60 per m sq., inc the special primer and thinners needed (coverage required to give 6 coats needed to build up required thickness...) no sanding required between coats, though.

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  12. david_japp, Nov 10, 2013
    #72
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Varnish caprails on vintage Feadship TIKY ex Alto Volante

    Here is TIKY with the caprails coated with Coelan

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  13. Fishtigua, Nov 10, 2013
    #73
    Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    David,

    I'm a bit of a sad sack whom actually likes Trad varnishing,(it's an Antiguan thang):)

    Any links to Coelan? Not one I know.
  14. david_japp, Nov 10, 2013
    #74
    david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    Coelan on vintage Feadship motoryacht Tiky

    Hi there
    I have always used traditional oil based varnishes on my previous yacht's brightwork and indeed used Epiphanes trad varnish on all of Tiky's teak superstructure. However, I am aware how much wear and tear caprails and handrails get and what a pain it will be to rub down and revarnish 250ft of them but I also wanted a superb gloss finish to match the rest of the brightwork. Accordingly we did a test comparing 2 sections of teak handrail coated with 8 coats Epiphanes and another identical section coated with Coelan gloss and 8 of 10 guys at the yard preferred the finish of Coelan. I may eat my words in a year or two when has Tiky been out in the weather and Mediterranean sun for a couple of seasons, but right now the only negative I can envisage with Coelan is the cost, which is significantly higher than other varnishes. Here is a link to various magazine tests. Reviews.
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