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Suggested Maintenance Budget for Purchase

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Danvilletim, Oct 25, 2013.

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  1. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    Looking at sportfish with 12v71 600 hours since SMOH... and the boats been stuck at the dock except for a few times a year.. Last time away from dock was July. Details and records of rebuilds aren't available....

    Boat needs to go from Seattle to SF....

    What's the list of items a cautious boater would make before taking the journey? Cost?
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    All the service and a bunch of runs before you leave (oil & all filters).
    Keep checking the fuel filters after each run. Is this a move after purchase? New captain? Engine survey could help.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I would do a full service/maintanence on everything, and a few trial runs and check fuel filters as suggested above. You didn't state the size of the SF but with 12v71's I'm guessing 50-60'. Spare parts will run you about $10k

    Engines- spare set of belts, raw water impellors, 3 sets of secondary fuel filters, 12-24 primary fuel filters, a spare fuel injector and set of thermostats.

    Generator- 2 spare impellors, spare set of belts, 3 spare secondary fuel filters, 6 primary fuel filters. 10 gallons of oil for engines and gen, 5 gallons for gears, spare oil filters for everything.....I once had one shred.....

    Boat- plenty of spare hose clamps assorted size, assorted sized hose with wire 4' sections, bilge pump, float switch, full electrical kit, full tool kit, cleaning supplies, lightbulbs for everything especially nav lights, fuses if so equipped, various tubes of sealant- 5200, lifeseal, silicone. Spare shower sump pump/float switch, macerator pump, tie wraps, tape, 100' of 3/8's or slightly smaller line in case you need to lash something down. Handheld GPS and VHF radio. Flashlights. Batteries AA, AAA, 9V, flashlight batteries.

    Last but not least- 1 bucket or steam, 1 gallon of Propwash, and a Metric adjustable wrench.
  4. rhinotub

    rhinotub Member

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    ...and, apparently, you need a life-sized version of Capt J.
  5. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Repair lumber, saw and a big tarp in case you get holed..Seattle to SF ain't too bad in the right season, way too late now..high risk ...run along the beach so to speak, if something goes badly wrong, step off and call a cab...no need to be a deep sea hero...usually the headlands are the ****tiest parts sea state wise, dial a buoy is a great tool..
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Wow, that's quite a list for a transport. I've only transported 1,000 or 2,000 boats, but I run with a leatherman, a belt, a basic tool set and a Sea Tow membership (and of course the basic safety equipment). Guess I should be dead. This boat is not going on an around the world circumnavigation. It's a transport. Granted, you can load a boat with enough equipment to fix anything, and the weight will probably sink it.

    The best advice I see here is
    I'm an east coaster, but from what I've heard I don't think I'd want to make that trip in winter.
    1) Get a survey
    2) Have the boat adequately brought up to snuff before casting off.
    4) Do a shakedown cruise of at least several hours before heading for the ocean.
    5) spare filters, basic tools, a first aid kit.
    6) Standard safety equipment.
    7) a clear weather window
    8) a competent captain.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    NYCAP- He's purchasing a yacht that has been mostly sitting and has seen very limited use and running a harsh sea in a harsh time of year.

    My theory is the more spare parts the better, and he can always use the excess spare parts during his time of ownership. Also, the parts suppliers and services are not as plentiful in most places of that journey......

    Another option is to load it on a freighter and unload it in Ensenada Mexico and run it up and it's a 1 day trip.
  8. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    I have been out there on 3 occasions, believe me when 100ft yachts, fishing fleet and me, run for cover you can guess what it's like, one time we had 3 tries before getting around Cape Mendacino in Norther Ca. it's not a long trip but a potentially dangerous one..
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I assume were talking San Frisco. As the crow flies, thats almost 500 miles. Maybe a fat 800 on his original plan.
    weather & seas south of SF can get ugly also.
    Freighters don't go to SF?
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Your theory is correct except that:
    1) Murphy's Law dictates that if you load a boat up with every concievable repair item for every concievable potential, your emergency will be the one thing you have not prepared for.
    2) If this question is being asked, he probably doesn't have the experience needed to handle most of the potential repairs, for which those supplies would be used, in an emergency.

    I think your last suggestion is the best, but why Ensenada Mexico? I'm with rcrapps and dennismc, there must be freighters going to SF. The PNW in winter is not a place I'd like to be. I still remember when new in the business our captain once discussing our plans to go around the top of Cape Bretton Island in March with a passing freighter and hearing the words "Not in that little boat" (we were on a 140'). We were too far north to turn around. So we ended up trying to wind our way through fields of ice into the Straits of Canso as the sun set. The best protection is to not put yourself into a dangerous position in the first place.

    I think the $10K for spares would be better spent on Winter storage and repairs where she sits or a freighter, and a fine dinner in a nice SF restaurant.

    BTW, I hope you recognize that my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek with some of what I'm saying. Your list is good. The idea of making this trip is bad.
  11. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Go with Capt. J's list. The list is no big deal to put together.
    The fact that the boat has sat so long is not good.
    What gearboxes are on the 12v71's?
    Either get a spare Hydreco gear oil pressure pump to take with, (if you have Allison MH20's) or read the manual because there is a feature that if the gear fails, you can lock the engine in gear to get home. Worth knowing anyway.
    Check the batteries age and take note whether you are running 32volt (Hatteras or Bertram) in which case the 8 volt batteries. So now there are a lot of 32v items, such as globes, alternator and some pumps.
    If you have a tender, good. If not then an RFD if not get an inflatable.
    Are there Prime Pumps for the motors? Good to have on these big engines.
    What charges the batteries to the navigation gear?
    I ask this because the people that installed my new electronics, connected them to old batteries that had very little charge getting to them, When the boat arrived in Aussie, I had a long voyage home, turned out I had $25,000 worth of electronics that lost power as soon as Auto pilot was used. I motored 5 days with no auto pilot, very tiring, once home installed an extra alternator to new batteries only used for the navigation gear.
    Take a smartphone with Navionics or similar app.
    Plan the trip!
    Paper charts with list of ports with alternative ports, where you can get into if needed. Also very helpful if there is a book detailing the entrances and their particulars for navigation.
    Fuel could be very dirty, so be prepared that once the tanks get shaken about in the ocean, you may lose generator power. The 12v71’s will likely keep going through most the crap.
    2 X EPIRBS.
    Check all the fire extinguishers.
    Check belts.
    Take nothing for granted and ENJOY yourself. My best times are longish voyages without a skipper, as long as you feel and are competent.
    The above is not based on qualifications, just experience using the same engines with Allison GB’s. BTW, are the engines Naturals?
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Seems to me we're somewhat putting the cart before the horse. We've got solutions but we don't really know the boat or it's condition, nor do we know anything about the owner's experience or the crew that would be with him. To me as an owner the first thing is always a complete survey. Second is capable crew, which he as owner may be a part of. If we're talking about an experienced delivery captain just moving one more of thousands of boats down the shore and he's checked it out and given it a sea trial and is comfortable then provisioning and then taking off is one thing. If we're talking about a boat that may have many problems and an owner who has never made this trip then it's quite another. All the supplies and equipment suggested should be to be prepared for unanticipated problems. But first one needs to know enough about the boat to know what should be anticipated.

    Then issues like the range of the boat and where to stop along the way. I knew a man with a terminal illness who traveled constantly the last two years of his life in a motor home. He mapped it all though with notes of what hospital to go to if an emergency arose all along the way. I would certainly want a fully map of escape routes for this trip. Who tows me at each area if towing needed. What marina do I pull to if the weather and conditions are turning or I'm having problems.
  13. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    It's not like your king crab fishing in the Bering Sea with no place to hide.

    We had many yachts (new and used) make the run from SoCal to Seattle timed with the Seattle Boat Show held in January without incident (always making the show) over the years.

    At least its "down hill" for the OP......
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    1. This is sometimes true amd happens. I managed and did a bunch of changes on a 2008, 64' Hatteras MY and maintained it for 6 months, did a trip to Key West. We leave and pull in Nassau, our first stop heading to Venezuala, and as soon as we pull in, the battery charger goes bad.....and I had to jump on a plane, fly to Ft. Laud to buy a battery charger and fly back the next day.

    2. Even if I didn't change the part, having it on board has saved a lot of money and time if a mechanic came out and you can hand him the part rather than him chasing it all over town on your dollar or having to overnight it or order it. On an old boat, things are always going to break.......it's better to be prepared and not need it, then to need it and not have it. I don't ever want to give an excuse to an owner that his vacation is ruined because we don't have a macerator pump on board.

    With the Jones act, a non US flagged freighter which are most freighters can only unload in one US port without going to a different country before going to the next US port to unload. So most of them will either pickup in Seattle or Vancouver and unload in Ensenada, MEX. He may be able to find a barge (US flagged) to go straight from Seattle to CA.
  15. d_meister

    d_meister Senior Member

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    Having run the West Coast for 24 years, I can tell you that Capt J's list is a good one. It's a list that most professionally crewed vessels of that type have aboard normally, and, as he says, the unused spares will be on hand until used in the future. The single biggest chance of problems is dirty fuel. Boats get slammed heading uphill and pitch and yaw going downhill. Whatever is on the bottom of the fuel tank is going to move around and get to the filters. I once brought a 100' Burger from San Diego to Seattle that had just come from Florida on it's own bottom without any issues. The Captain was going in for hip surgery, so our crew took it up. We made it less than 500 miles before we had to stop and have the fuel polishers come to the boat.
    The West Coast is like one Cape Hatteras after the other, times 7. There's a reason that the Coast Guard has their Motor Life Boat school on the Washington coast.
    In the winter months, winds are often SW, closing most harbor entrances. Most harbors are small with limited services, anyway. Nothing like being low on fuel and having nowhere to go.
    Maybe now that Sevenstar is the big player, there will be more transport options.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Are you and PacBlue in the same California? Yours is the PNW coast I've always heard of.

    As for getting boats to shows I know about that pretty well. I remember one show in Norwalk where I turned back until the next day. When I arrived, all the boats that came in the day before were being put back together with tape and anything else to make them look nice until they could get back to the dealerships for proper repairs. (doors off hinges, headliners on the floor, etc.). I've moved boats down the east coast in January. It certainly can be done but I don't recommend it, and it's no pleasure cruise. Brave or impatient makes for broken boats and dead men. Also, help is not coming fast in winter.
    I'm not questioning whether it can be accomplished, and Capt.J's list is good if it must. I'm questioning if it should. The OP is coming out of a 35 Doral. What does that tell you? He's going into: "the boats been stuck at the dock except for a few times a year.. Last time away from dock was July. Details and records of rebuilds aren't available". I'll stick with my advice to have the boat surveyed and leave her where she is, having any needed repairs accomplished, until Spring. Then hire a captain familiar with the PNW, it's inlets and services.
  17. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    This is great stuff. Thanks. So is it worth it to have mobile fuel polishers come aboard before leaving? What's this cost? She currently has 1300 gallons out of 3600 in the tanks
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    3,600 gals. of fuel puts this boat in the 80' range. That's a big jump from what you have now.
  19. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    Hell yes it is! Actually 70'. Got to be some reason we go to work everyday. We will have a delivery captain along for this ride south. Got to find one still.
  20. d_meister

    d_meister Senior Member

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    The value of doing the fuel polishing really depends on the tank access and configuration. One boat I was recently involved with has bilge fuel tanks 20' long and 16" deep with the access in the center of the tank. There was no way to get the suction wand past baffles and anywhere near the pick-up area or the lowest part of the tank. Generally, though, it would be good to have it done ahead. Otherwise, you could sea trial the boat in Puget Sound on a windy day and see what stirs up.
    I'm sure that the experiences PacBlue are as he describes. There are many windows of good weather for traveling the coast. Oddly, there are fewer during the summer months. The thermal updraft in the central valleys can cause NW winds to blow for weeks at a time at 20+ knots. The seas build day after day, and when the period is the same as the wave height, it can get ugly.