Living on a yacht?

So I am a wife! I'm hoping someone can assst us in narrowing the field on our purchase of a live aboard. My husband and I are both in our 60s - avid sailors but our kids are all relocating to Savannah and we want a power for a slip there. My husband intends to work in Savannah~ 5 days/month and so we're looking for a nicer used boat, two staterooms, two heads, 48ft. or less that can serve as an apt for him short term and I will find nice enough to join. We enjoy the Abacos so this boat will have to travel that journey. Thoughts? Suggestions?

You don't mention a price but.....look at used DeFever 49' Pilot House trawlers. They are very nice live aboards for a couple with occasional guests. They're not very fast but more than sea worthy enough for anywhere in the Bahamas. Over the years they've been made by a few different Asian yards and some are better built than others. A good survey would be a must.

Wife

Thank you for the insight. We'll take a look at these!

Might be a bit small for your desires, but here is one liveaboard I'm considering

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-trawler-discussion/19252-trawler-houseboat.html

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/182310-post10.html

My all-time favorite boat for livaboard is the Florida Bay Coaster:
Florida Bay Coasters

I like space, and these have more than almost any boat in their size range. They also have a good reputation, and are solidly built.

Have you been on one? If so, what size? They do look spacious, from the pics on their website.

Several, up to 65'. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to cruise them though. They're like a split-level home with tons of interior & exterior spaces.

I have been on several and have sea trialed and surveyed a 55 for a client purchase. Lots of room, great live-aboard, but mega-windage. Sea conditions and weather should be near perfect for cruising.

Judy

Lots of sail area, but at 140,000 lbs. I wouldn't think that would be too much trouble. I've seen some sea tests on them (video), and they seem to handle seas better than I'd expect with a boat this tall. Doubt I'd consider them a rough water boat however, but that's just a guess. Maybe some owners can chime in with real world experience.

Draft: 4'6"

Sorry, but I'm still giggling to myself. Do you all remember those old photos with the red Jeep Wrangler on the bow of a Coaster in those advertisements in Boat magazine?

Just how much of a rusty wreck must that Jeep be these days?

I know, but beam (20'8") sort of washes that. Any chance your client might chime in with real world? For Savannah / coastal I think ideal, but the mention of cruising to Abacos does give me hesitation with most 50' trawler styles, except maybe Nordhaven.

Interesting statement by Jay Benford:

0-06-2008,

Jay Benford

Re: A lesson learned about ****ty boats



As the designer of the Coasters, I’ve had several discussions with reasonable people inquiring about the sinking of Steelaway and what may have been behind it.
Discussions about our Florida Bay Coasters often come round to questions about the stability. Having personally been aboard several of them in sea conditions of at least 8' seas (on the beam) and gale force winds, and I've yet to see one heel more than ten degrees. The thing that the casual observer misses is that the boats are VERY beamy. Transverse stability increases relative to waterline beam CUBED. These boats would not be readily blown over nor heel much without something catastrophic happening to compromise their watertight integrity.
The 55' Coaster on the cover of the September 2008 PassageMaker has made a round trip on the Seattle to Sitka, AK, route and is on her way back up now. On the last trip down, crossing at the Queen Charlottes, in large mixed seas, they reported heel angles of six to eight degrees. See http://www.benford.us/pdf/WhatAboutStability.pdf for further explanation. Please learn more about stability before condemning ANY boat. A boat like this, with a GM of 3 to 4’ when built, is considered to be very stable. Check this with the owners of the Coasters – “Ask the man who owns one”….
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/atta...1&d=1223327531

Here is a set of stability curves for an actual sistership to the alleged missing vessel. The highest one is with the tanks full. The middle one is the data as inclined. The lower curve is with the tanks empty. There were three of these 45’ Coasters built in about 1990, one right after another, each with slight variations in layout. These curves were created from values measured on a vessel that had been in service for a decade and a half, with the associated accumulation of stuff and spares aboard. The vessel in question had larger house volumes aloft – no aft deck off the master stateroom – and thus would have an even higher rise as the houses were immersed.

Keep in mind:
1) We're talking about a vessel that is in the over 100,000 pound range. Thus to start it heeling from wind pressure is not an immediate thing, but rather more gradual as the wind pressure has to overcome the tendency of such a heavy object to not move. They are not intentionally light for high sailing performance, they are intentionally heavy for comfort and sedate motion.
2) All that "stuff" noted as deck cargo is included in the weight calculations and thus becomes part of the center of gravity portion of the stability curve calculation. They're still incredibly stiff with a load on deck, or hung over the side. Look back at what an actual owner of one (Steel Magnolia) said in the **************** threads....
3) I do hope and pray that we can have an OBJECTIVE and informed discussion here, based on facts, not one based on uninformed opinions. "Hearsay" (look up the definition) does not qualify in a court of law nor should it here.
I hate to let facts and first-hand experiences get in the way of a lively exchange. Particularly when it is stated that these boats are not capable of leaving sheltered waters. This flys in the face of the facts that two of them are based on Lake Michigan, which is open water as soon as you leave port, and several have cruised many times in the Bahamas.
However, having been in operational control of half a dozen different Coasters, I can say without qualification that they are readily and easily controlled by a reasonably competent operator. For instance, I've docked a 45’ sistership in a gale, laying her alongside after doing a 180 in one and a half boat lengths of clear space. The lesson learned in doing this was that the boat had more time for the operator to consider their next move than we would have had on a lighter boat, for the wind took longer to have an effect on her....
Get a trip aboard one or talk with the people who actually have run them if you want to know the facts.
There's a simpler answer as to why they are named Florida Bay Coasters. Reuben Trane, who started the original business of that name was then running Florida Bay Boat company that he founded in Miami, building shallow draft cruising sailboats. He liked the Florida Bay name and kept it, calling the new company the Florida Bay Coaster company. There was never any intent to imply that they were limited in their cruising range or lacked ability to deal with open oceans. In fact, many of them have crossed to the Bahamas and cruised widely there, they've done north-south transits on the US east coast with many legs in the ocean, they've done the great loop and two of them are based on Lake Michigan -- always open waters cruising there. One has made the Puget Sound to Alaska circuit and is about to start it again. And the owner of the 38 in Australia just wrote that he's had her in 2-3 meter seas ("as stable as a rock") and is looking forward to seeing her in larger ones. A later Coaster crossed 1,000 miles of the Gulf of Mexico through some terrible weather. I think it would be more truthful to call them "freighter yachts" which would take away the assumption to readily made that they have some limited cruising or voyaging ability.
The owner called me after this article appeared in the Annapolis paper, questioning the accuracy of the reporting. Having personally been misquoted and seen articles (and message board posts) with made-up information, and opinions expressed as facts in them, I found this easy to believe.
The insurance company representative subsequently also called me, to follow up on our prior discussions about what happened to Steelaway. Their finding is that the six 8D batteries in the engine room were not properly secured. One of the batteries shifted, hitting the starboard dripless stuffing box, knocking it such that it allowed a lot of water to flood into the boat, which compromised the inherent stability of the boat, by creating a lot of free surface from having a very large amount of water in her which allowed her to make the lurch on heeling and led to her sinking. He made a point of telling me that there was no question that the design had good stability. It was only by being compromised in advance of the final incident, by this accumulation of water, that she sank at all.
Having a chance to see her again after she had been cleared of most of the interior debris and silt, I did not see a switch or circuit breaker labeled “high water alarm”. The salvors have emptied more than 10 tons of stuff from her, including the galley, heads, paneling and floor coverings. She is nearly ready for someone with the right vision to buy her and refit her. At the recent Solomons TrawlerFest I gave directions to see her to a couple folks and I’m looking forward to seeing her cruising again, with new owners who will care for her and keep her well found.

Postscript:
Another anecdote for those who persist in questioning the Coaster’s stability: when hurricane Andrew blew through Miami, coming ashore at 165 mph, the original Florida Bay Coaster, the 50’ Florida Bay, was in the Miami Marina. Her owner was a long ways away and could not get back in time to move her. When he did get back, he found most of the marina gone. Including the access piers to his boat. Which was still floating just where he left her. He had to get in a small boat to get out to her. She had not been blown over….
Remember that wind pressure varies with wind speed squared. Thus, Andrew’s winds were over six times as powerful as the reported wind gusts at the time of Steelaway’s sinking.
Further, a week or two later, Florida Bay was found to have a small accumulation of water in the hull where there had been none before. On a subsequent hauling, a very small crack was found and quickly welded shut. Apparently, during the high water and wild weather conditions, she had gone up and over an adjacent piling and acted as a pile driver on it. There was quite an accumulation of smeared wood material in the area of the crack testifying to this.

"... the mention of cruising to Abacos does give me hesitation with most 50' trawler styles, except maybe Nordhaven."

I can name a dozen trawler manufacturers off the top of my head that can do Abacos, Caribbean, Alaska and beyond. I can name half a dozen semi-displacement "fast trawlers" that can do the same in reasonable weather.

Judy

I've been looking at the hull designs on both the Fla Bay Coasters and the very similar Great Harbor trawlers for use on a smaller coastal trawler design. As I study the situation even more I am surprised to find a lot of positive attributes to these two designs.

As I've mentioned before I have been reading Jay Benford's very interesting book “Small Ships”, Working Vessels & Workboat Heritage Yacht Designs. On page 280, he is discussing the original development of the Florida Bay Coaster Design, a 50 footer. I excerpted the following passage from that discussion

Here is another observation by Jay Benford upon sea trialing their first 50' FBC

Coaster Performance in Waves

The man knows his stuff and obviously believes in his boats. I tend to believe him, although my love for these boats is based on design of living spaces, the solid feel and the look appeals to me.

I have sold 2 Great Harbour 37s and a GH 47. These trawlers are also great for live-aboard and offer a lot of space and comforts for their size. I have many opinions on why I think the Fl. Bay Coaster is a better built boat. In selling the 3 GHs, I knew the buyers were not going offshore. Both the GH and FBC have more windage than most other vessels of comparable size, but I do recommend the GH and FBC for those looking for voluminous live-aboard space with diminished plans for long-range cruising.

Judy

Boating, Fishing, Siesta

Just reading thru this subject thread and came upon your 'circular route'. It made me think of this funny I posted a number of years ago.

Boating, Fishing, Siesta

...from another forum...

Re: Anyone Familiar with Great Harbor Trawlers ?

From a different point of view...

I am currently living aboard a HK-built teak junk-style houseboat in a marina in Hong Kong. It is a marina queen (it can travel in calm waters but I don't take her out except for maintenance) but I love her, and love the lifestyle (quiet except when the fish jump, water, wind, like-minded neighbors vs a life of closed walls, permanent air-conditioning, tiny rooms, higher air pollution near the streets of downtown, and sharing elevators with several hundred of your closest friends). MUCH nicer than living in a cramped apartment. Monthly costs for renting, or owning+fees+maintenance+insurance+depreciation, are lower per square foot in the marina than they are in an apartment.

The only thing better would be to live on one with twin engines and a slightly higher cruising speed (she can cruise at 7-8 knots or so on her single Gardner but max can't be above about 10), and then run her out to the coves beyond Sai Kung on the weekends.

I have been a fan of wooden boats (and other traditional boats) for years, but hadn't ever lived aboard a boat for longer than a couple of weeks until I tried it a couple of years ago. It'll be two years next month and I can honestly say I would definitely look at living aboard in a different city on the water in future - whether it be a barge in Amsterdam, a cruiser-m/y in a coastal city, or even a sailboat with just me and the missus at some point. Personally, I would love an old Trumpy or a 'big commuter' so I could cruise as well as tinker, but that will have to wait until the kids leave home I think.

Are the Selene, DeFever or Nordhavn on that list? I think a Selene 47 is capable of cruising just about anywhere on the planet. After all, many have circumnavigated oceans on 30' sized sailboats haven't they?