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Yacht "A" gets a bad paint job...

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by K1W1, Oct 3, 2013.

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  1. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Well, win or lose, that should pretty well put that company out of business. I'd also expect that all yacht owners, seeking new paint jobs, will be signing bullet-proof releases before a roller, brush or spray gun gets anywhere near their boats. I expect too that A's crew will now be manning paint brushes since anybody would have to be a fool to paint that yacht, or anything else they own, again.
  3. rhinotub

    rhinotub Member

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    AkzoNobel is a massive co, that can take this hit.
    -
    Curious. Does it really take 18 months to paint a yacht like this?
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    If you are starting from bare steel quite likely.
  5. rhinotub

    rhinotub Member

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    Thanks.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Wife could use 18 months in a shop also.
    Ex Model?
  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    "Ex Model?"

    Bad fairing, good man-trapping skills.
  8. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    I'd actually say the photographer is at fault on that one... the image is harsh.

    18 months seemed excessive to me too at first, but if you start figuring how long the it will take to first remove the existing paint, re-prep the entire surface (and there is a lot of surface to prep), and then apply the new paint... 18 months doesn't seem so long.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Your talking about the ex-model rite? Yacht should take 17 months.
  10. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The whole paint system has been called into question, this will be from the shop primer to the top coat.

    The Owners obviously want max bang for the buck so they are going for the max and hoping to get a good percentage of it.

    I would be very surprised if any painting company in Australia or NZ would take this on given its history and propensity to sue.

    Painting a yacht this big is way different to painting anything else, even the big operators struggle to get it right sometimes so anyone hoping to give it a scratch and shoot and come out smiling should keep buying the lottery tickets - even if they win nothing it will probably be a better investment than taking this on.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It may take them 18 months to find anyone drunk or stupid enough to work on that boat.
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    They can take a 62M pound hit? Hope you don't mind, but I'll hold off buying their stock.
  13. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    My experience over the years has been that sometimes you run across those who either sue frequently or fail to pay the complete bill and dare the vendor to sue. There are also those who just like to bully. I've tried to avoid dealing with those always in disputes. In fact, I've never been involved in a suit, personally or in business. Somehow I've always been able to resolve disputes amicably.

    Obviously none of us have seen the boat up close. It would also be an extremely unusual situation that would entitle the owner to any more than what he paid for the paint job.
  14. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    Did the owner sue the builder back times or Starck for the design (which he even should have!)? If not, I'd say there must be some real problem with the paint job and not just an itchy lawyer syndrome, as hinted to above.

    As for the risk, by the wording of an article it appears the initial bill was above 10m. If you charge this kind of money, you really should start bothering about client satisfaction.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I'm sorry, I'm still having to much fun here;
    Ex model or boat??
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The reality of such a contract suit can only seek damages of the cost of the contract/work order.
    I would like to see the fine print in the contract/work order. By standard operating procedures, the vendor would (should) have had a lot of fine print in there protecting himself from actions such as these.
    Have the defendants (paint company) made any public comments about these charges? Have they had any complaints or history before?

    Still in da gutter but Inquirer level now.
  17. rhinotub

    rhinotub Member

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    Umm. It's roughly a $14 Billion (US) global company with 55,000+ employees. Pretty sure they can. And they're probably insured for such things.

    On 2012 income of $1.3 Billion, they could pay 62MM pounds (@$100MM US) in 3.5 days.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I think a perfect yacht like finish on a yacht that size would be **** near impossible to achieve.
  19. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    And the criticism is that it's not reflective enough.

    The other thing that surprises me is that it doesn't set arbitration as the first level of recourse or even binding arbitration as the only one. Now, it could be that they've already tried and failed at arbitration. That's on top of many having clear language limiting their liability. Now, what also gets interesting is that I'm sure they have enough liability insurance to cover the damages (not the amount claimed perhaps but more than reasonable damages). This may be nothing more than an effort to get the insurer to pay but most insurers are more than willing to drag litigation out forever.

    These are just more reasons that everyone is best off in a situation like this settling the disagreement in a manner that both sides feel like they lost.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The whole paint side of the business is an absolute minefield these days.

    In approaching yards for a new vessel I have seen offers of paint and filler being Owners supply and defects in topcoat not a rest or warranty point.

    Another slightly different one said it would finish the painting after the yacht was delivered.

    From what I am led to believe a full filling, fairing and paint system on a boat like the one mentioned here would go around €10 million from the start, not allowing for getting all the filler off if it has to come off.

    The top coat can and is often affected by what its applied over.

    All the filler and paint companies have altered their recipes in recent years to reduce/eliminate the VOC's and become environmentally friendly.

    This has unfortunately resulted in unstable and unreliable systems. The faults are not always immediately apparent and in a lot of cases take weeks to manifest the selves.

    Maintaining an environment that suits the application on such a big lump also produces challenges all of its own. If you apply enough heat to have suitable temps down at the waterline when in a shed, the top decks will be significantly warmer.

    The yards are generally the ones that get stuck with it as it would be in their scope of supply this explains why some are so gun shy when it comes to this stuff.

    It is after all the first thing someone sees when they see a vessel, they do not see the fine equipment and engineering that is hidden inside, just the outer few microns that can either give a grand impression that suits the whole project or have folks think what sort of yard is that which builds a boat that looks like this after a few months.