At what size do you no longer feel like you're boating

I agree with you on the enclosed living room aspect. We definitely don't want to just spend our time in a floating hotel. I love those with designs where the Salon opens wide and gives you a nice continuing area with the cockpit. Also to me a nice flybridge and/or sundeck is essential. When the weather is nice I'd far rather ride in some openness (still like some form of top over my head) than in a luxurious pilothouse or salon. In some ways that is similar to a car in my mind, that just driving around in a nice car does nothing for me, but the moment I can take the top down and open it up I'm great. I think most people have some element of claustrophobia even though we might tend to label it as cabin fever or even talk about seasonal depression. We absolutely love the salt air and the breezes off the water. Yes, even the humidity. Allergies I've had all my life have reduced themselves to nearly nothing since we moved to the South Florida coast.

Also, I'm with you on the use or uses aspect. Noticed for instance that the Nordhavn 120 has a 9 foot draft. While the hull depth and overall structure is certainly good for rough water, that draft is very limiting when it comes to destinations. The various uses has always been a consideration with us. Even before while on the lake, we had several boats although not anything like we're pursuing now. But we had a large runabout, an open deck boat, and a smaller boat we enjoyed on smooth days when it was just the two of us, plus another older boat that just couldn't bring myself to trade in when we got a new one.

So, the idea of accumulating multiple boats for varying uses is nothing new for us. The difference is that in this situation they are obviously much more costly. If I didn't set any boundaries on myself, I'd end up with a dozen boats...ok, that may be some exaggeration but I do love them. I'd have one jet propelled and one surface drive. I'd have one solar and electric of some sort. Some sort of limo type for just the local canals. We have tentatively targeted owning three or four boats when all is said and done. Two of those have been resolved in our minds. The help of everyone here and those I'm talking to locally plus our captains is pushing us toward two more for a total of four. The larger of those for ocean crossing is probably now several years away due to both the need and the time required to choose and build.

We've already developed a good feel for those in the 40' to 75' range for inland, coastal and some near coastal use. Our captains have extensive experience in many different boats up to 100' and then 200' and over. Where everyone here is so helpful is hands on experience with various boats. No one person has actually been on all boats out there in all conditions so the more people you get input from, the better, even where some of the opinions conflict. Also the smaller boats are less of a financial hit if it turns out you don't love it and decide to change in two or three years. When you get in the larger yachts, the so-called megayachts, making the right choice the first time is much more important.

One thing I've done as well is look at the used market, although I don't intend to buy used. I've looked to see how the older ones have held up but then also to see how many of the newer ones hit the market again quickly. When you see a company introduce a new 100' designed to be everything to all people and yet their first three builds are quickly back on the market you get concerned. Then you find that the owners didn't get out of boating, but instead, quickly moved on to other brands. On the other hand when you see one on the market simply because the owner decided to build another with the same manufacturer that's reassuring. Now if it's building again for a larger size, it does make you think that maybe you should start with the larger model instead of working up. Still, some brands have developed incredible customer loyalty and those are really worth getting to know better. I've seen some passion here and in private for certain builders and one does listen carefully to that, while also reminding that it is one person's opinion and might not be shared by all.

No, I have not. Another US builder that hasn't been discussed is Burger. What are opinions of these two?

Well, some part of preferred location on the boat involves the weather. I do like looking out from a salon with lots of windows. But I love even more to be able to get out and feel it too, even smell more of the salt water around. The aroma you mention is one I can live without but I do know head issues will arise on a boat. Of course, I have had them arise in a hotel. Actually in one of the nicest hotels in Fort Lauderdale. Who knows what the guests before us put down it.

Quite informative. I have found as perhaps you did in doing my research that there are some additional options out there. It doesn't have to be Nordhavn for oceanworthiness and AB for speed. You mention Moonen. Burger has also built some excellent seaworthy boats with range and with speeds into the 20's. They Hatteras 100 is likely to reach a good balance. While these boats won't get the economy of a true displacement model with much smaller engines, they will still achieve reasonable economies at displacement speeds.

I am leaning back close to the 100' range in my thinking, 100-110, for the same reasons you mention plus for crew size. I think you go from 100' to 130' in similar styles and you increase your requirements in that regard significantly. I know that experience too well going from 3,500 square feet to over 10,000 in a home. Now to spend some time on more representative boats as I know I very much enjoy boats up to 80 or 90' even when going 15-25 knots or less. I also know that the 200' Trinity I was on a couple of weeks ago just wasn't boating to me, not the type I love, in addition to being well out of my price range.

I do find the information I've received here to be most helpful. I was probably leaning toward one manufacturer that I'm now leaning away from. Perhaps part of my reasoning was quicker availability but I'll already have enough toys, known as boats, to play around with that I can more than wait for the right one.

Oh and Moonen has jumped in on the term of "Fast Displacement" too. However, their 99 achieves a max of 26 knots and cruises at 19 with a range of 2500 nm at 11. Now, I'd even be find sacrificing a bit of that speed to get the range up to 3000 nm, or add fuel capacity. It just takes us all some time to find our right match. I'm most fortunate that my wife and I do have the same desires and opinions.

Oh and Berger has a 100 that reaches 22 knots but gets over 4000 nm at 10 knots.

Interesting but not my thing for me. Have read about some old conversions from shipping vessels and tugs and such and certainly seen some interesting vessels there. I tend to buy new and maintain well. Also use to trade without hesitation but the last few years have an issue in not wanting to part with the old even when getting new. Maybe it's the wanting to make sure they have a good home syndrome.

I've pretty much concluded what you've outlined and if nothing changes in my mind will order a 60' Hatteras very soon. Meanwhile will continue looking at 100'. Also looking to stay right at or very close to 100'. The leading candidates at the moment are Moonen, Burger, and Hatteras.

Tomorrow we're doing something we've never done. Going sailing in the ocean. Now just so it's clear, all the work is being done by others. We might do the tiniest bit but mostly just want the experience. Previous largest sailboat we've been on was 24' or so.

That is excellent advice. We were on a Trinity of nearly 200' and definitely concluded as beautiful as it was, that it wasn't for us. We didn't like the feel as we felt like cruise passengers versus boaters. We have narrowed our interests to the 100' range with a maximum of around 120', although we might stretch that up slightly. So for us right now, taking the approach you suggest we may charter a couple of times in the range up to 140' or so. We are focused in on a couple of manufacturers too. Our other requirements, or preferences, have been narrowed, with some flexibility. We would like a maximum speed of approximately 20 knots, with a cruising speed of around 15 knots and an economical speed of 10-12 knots which will provide a range of at least 3000 nm. We do want ocean going capability in a proven hull design, taking a traditional approach. We also prefer a draft of approximately 6'. Our equipment requirements are at the high end with a heavy emphasis on redundancy.

This combination we feel provides the ability to explore long distances and make limited oceanic crossings but also to be able to visit enough areas to enjoy its usage. We realize that all choices are a bit of a compromise. Speed and range have to be balanced. Ocean going ability versus size and draft and ability to dock in many locations, the ability to get there versus the ability to go where you actually want to go once there.

As we do have other boats we are not as concerned about the date of delivery although our target is to enter into a contract by late 2013 or early 2014 for delivery no later than the end of 2016. Now with some of those we're considering, we may actually be able to get earlier delivery since what we're looking for is very close to boats they have recently built for others. In terms of our ideal functionality in terms of interior and deck space, we've found it well satisfied in this range with several choices in the 98-106' range. However, we've found if we'd grade that an A, we can get layouts in 116-120' that we grade A+.

One area we're still researching and looking for input is 'as long as draft is the same, how many areas do you find yourself limited as to navigation and docking by 120' that you would not be limited at 100'. It was our initial believe that 100' was a cutoff for many facilities. However, in actually researching to date (recognizing we have more to do), we haven't found that at all to be the case. We have found very few places we could visit in a 100', that we couldn't in 120'.

Cost is also somewhat a consideration. There is a huge difference between 100' and 120' in the same manufacturer as one would expect. The 140'-150' foot range is beyond what we're prepared to spend at this time.

Many of these choices we recognize are personal and not those others might make. For instance, we're probably looking at aluminum and there are those who feel steel is the only way to go. Many would also encourage explorer, long range models which have top speeds of no more than 12 knots. And the area where I think the majority here would probably disagree with us is on new versus used. That's strictly a personal preference and while not absolute, it is nearly so, probably 98%. Simply we can go new and get closer to our specific desires.

Some of our desires in that regard include lots of sun, both inside and out. Lots of outside living areas. Good tender accommodation. Hot tub. Spacious living areas. Large staterooms over the number of staterooms. This is a big area as especially those built for charter emphasize more staterooms. We do want space for several people to be comfortable and not a distraction in the pilothouse. We prefer also having an upper helm from which to enjoy boating when conditions are conducive. Space for crew to be able to do their jobs, engine and equipment areas, are important to us. But also very important to us is the quality of the crew accommodations. For lack of a better way to say it, we don't want crew treated as second class citizens. When we hear the word in that regard of "adequate", we respond with a desire to have more than adequate.

We may charter two or three different boats in the 100'-130' range to reinforce our current opinions or to contradict them and modify.

I'd say the chances of us doing a transatlantic voyage are not slim. That's the one place I'd have to add something. We absolutely do intend to do one even though it's several years from now. We actually have a rather detailed list of our future boating expectations. This specific boat is one we would use for east coast including Canadian waters, transatlantic, caribbean, gulf coast, great lakes, Panama canal and west coast including Alaska. Those are pretty firm. Beyond that Central and South America depend on various factors including political unrest and piracy that aren't easily predictable. Hawaii is a potential consideration but not firm by any means. Were we to decide to explore Australian and pacific waters, that would likely be by shipping the boat.

I know many here just don't agree with our desire to do the transatlantic voyage but it's something we will absolutely do at least once each way and maybe more than once in our boating life. It's just as much as our desire to do the great loop, which will be in a different boat. If we were to actually get a European manufactured boat, our plans would be to take delivery there and use it there for the first year then cross the Atlantic home.

Yes, in chartering and looking at sizes, layouts do make a difference but one thing chartering can help is to help you determine features you like or dislike-things to add to your list and things to avoid.

You're right the schedule is tight and if it moves a little that isn't a problem. We do intend to charter at least three times between now and the end of the year.