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East Coast hurricane harbors

Discussion in 'Marinas & Waypoints' started by JWY, Aug 28, 2013.

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  1. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    I have a client bringing his yacht from Toronto to Ft. Lauderdale. His insurance company is requiring him to submit a hurricane plan enroute including safe harbors in the event of a tropical storm warning. He would appreciate any suggestions for a few protected marinas along the way - perhaps one in New England, one in Chesapeake, and one in Georgia.

    Thanks!

    Judy
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That's almost laughable Judy. The insurance companies are the ones who commissioned the flood plain studies, and insure marina's and the coastal property along the entire east coast. Why aren't they giving your client a list of hurricane holes? Sounds like their looking for a liability dodge.

    Once you pass New Bedford, Newport and Providence there's a big space. Since Connecticut and Long Island were devastated in 1938 and again in Sandy I doubt you'll find an acceptable one there with the possible exception of Essex. A lot of areas around NYC would have been considered before Sandy. Next would probably be Annapolis, Baltimore and Washingto D.C., possibly Savannah, and I can't think of a single one south of there.
    Sounds like your client needs a different company as most simply say not below Nags Head or Charleston before November 15.

    Also, the size of the yacht would make a big difference in the determination as the one kind of hole for a 50', but that may serve no purpose for a 200' yacht.
  3. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Thanks, Ed. Of course I should have provided the boat length - I hate it when that happens.

    To bring the vessel to Florida, owner had to cancel his insurance with a "prestigious" company and is now getting a new policy with a well known marine insurer.

    She's a beautiful 50' steel trawler. And I still need specific marina recommendations.
  4. captaintilt

    captaintilt Senior Member

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    Hurricane Harbors

    Depending on the strength of the storm, there are a few places up the Cooper River and Wando (Cooper River Marina is probably 7 miles to the end of the jetties) in Charleston that would be somewhat feasible, maybe ride it out on the hook up near the locks if the storm isn't a direct hit to Charleston. City Boatyard up the Wando in Cainhoy would be pretty good as well.

    In NC, if you want to pull the boat, I would recommend no where else but Jarrett Bay in Beaufort, but you could also run inland, and I've stayed at River Forest Marina in Belhaven, NC. Definitely has the "old school" feel to things, but the community dinner was lots of fun, and your pretty far off the coast, so it may help as well.

    Also, in Virginia, I would look at Deltaville at Dozier's or even up to Cambridge at the Hyatt Regency (Its a great facility) in MD, again, depends on the track of the storm. You could also run up near Richmond if the storm is coming into the Chesapeake. Ive never been up there, but they used to run ships up there, so you will have plenty of water.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    For that add Pt. Jefferson on Long Island, not much in New Jersey so I'd say Atlantic City or Cape May, the upper Delaware River, upper Chesapeake and Norfolk. Below that he might say that his plans are to cruise the ICW except in pristine weather. Unfortunately there's not many places along the coast that an insurance company can't argue with, and at trawler speed his choice of hurricane hole will depend on where he is at the moment. Again, he should try shifting the burdon to them by asking them for a list. We're bringing a 56' Hat down the coast slowly and all we were told is not south of Nags Head before November 15.
    I'm particularly troubled by their reference to "tropical storm warning". The plan for most of us would be to either push on through or to stay wherever we happen to be at the time and just put on extra lines, depending on how bad. It's not like a trawler has a lot of choices to get out of the path.
  6. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    In Georgia we have used and I would highly recommend Thunderbolt Marine.
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Typical clueless insurer with no grap on the real world... This is useless exercise as there is no guarantee they would find an empty slip anyway...

    I think the absolute best huricane hole marina on the east coast is Osprey in myrtle beach on the ICW / wacamaw river. Tall trees all around, far from the inlet to minimize surge... But they only have a couple of transient slips... There are a couple more on the wacamaw with great protection,

    He did thunderbolt fare with Hugo back in 89? Surge would probably reach them and there is little protection from wind in the marsh.

    As we ve seen, the cheasie can be hit hard by storm surge.

    I know he has to comply with the insurer request but every storm is different and what works for one, will not for another...
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Jacksonville Florida has always been a good place. Never (NEVER) had a direct hit since Dora in the '60s, TS Fay came thru a couple of years ago and both were just soakers.
    The marinas in the Ortega area hold up very well. Lots of creeks, trees and wind breaks up river to Sanford, if you still have to move some more.
  9. wscott52

    wscott52 Senior Member

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    Thunderbolt is a nice marina but I'm not sure it's the best choice for a hurricane. It's at the end of several miles of open Wilmington River and can get rough with a strong ENE wind. For a 50' yacht I might suggest a marina on Turner's Creek. Of course a good storm surge will any marina in the area dicey.
  10. captaintilt

    captaintilt Senior Member

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    Hurricane Harbors

    I agree with Jacksonville area. As you move down the St. Johns River past Downtown, there are lots of areas that you could get into to weather it out.

    I agree with the earlier comment in that with the speed of a 50' trawler, a lot is going to depend on where your at when the storm comes rolling through. Probably not a lot of outrunning. I've run through a couple TS, and it makes it uncomfortable, but not unbearable.

    I remember leaving the FLIBS show in 2007 and outrunning the TS that was barrelling in on us. It was pretty nasty in the ICW, and I remember a lot of the people at the show were looking at us like crazy when we started pulling lines off the dock to head out.
  11. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    We are 85' so can't get up into the backwoods. Last season we ran down from Boston a couple of weeks before Sandy and left the boat at Thunderbolt until Jan. It beats WPB which is where the boat is now.

    I don't see much difference between somewhere in Turner's Creek or Thunderbolt Marine. Had few worries leaving it in the back corner of the basin. We are west coast based so it's not great for us to have to move the boat in a hurry.

    And, yes any place is the wrong place if you're in the path.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Another thought about moving a slow moving boat. There are still a lot of draw bridges between Jax and Ft Peirce. During storms, they may not open. Most of them will give 26 - 28 vertical. Daytona's 2 bridges are lower, maybe 20. On a trawler, if you can't move off shore, don't count moving well on the ICW.
    Yep, Have a plan anyway. Insurance required or not.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I'm still very on guard about this request from an insurance company. One place is pretty much as good or as bad as another with a tropical storm and none is good for a hurricane that goes where you are. Anywhere in Florida, even Jacksonville, is vulneable if a hurricane hits either coast. More than a few have swept a path from one coast to the other.
    At trawler speed, they'll need to have a place listed about every 50 miles. Even if this boat had a list of places down the entire coast does the insurance company think they'd find a welcome over the local boats heading for the back waters?
    It sounds to me like the insurance company is playing with them so he'll give them the excuse not to write the policy or else he'll leave them a built in excuse not to pay a claim should the worst happen.
    I think he needs to keep shopping.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Most policies require a hurricane plan for the home port, not while in transit. Odd request.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    And they're not even asking for a hurricane plan, but a plan for tropical storm warnings. Extremely odd. The topper is that this boat isn't even plastic.
  16. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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  17. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments. Much appreciated.

    A few points: the yacht has only been in Canadian inland waters and of course with no hurricane coverage. So maybe the requirement by the new insurance company is based on lack of experience - I mean the boat is coming to Florida during peak H season with an owner lacking in storm experience (of course there is a professional captain and experienced mate also). The owner is subscribing to a professional weather service, so no need to "outrun" a storm as presumably there will be plenty of notice for tucking inland way before trouble finds its direction. I'm fully confident that this small ship would weather weather whether it wanted to or not.

    Putting together the list of recommended harbors sure makes the trip enticing. Wish I were onboard. The boat will be leaving Toronto soon so I'll post how the story ends.

    Let's hope the quiet storm season stays quiet for everybody!
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    This should hold them. From jhallt767's suggestion (the book lists for $100 and there may be suppliments for each of these), but here's what seems to be the official answer.:
    Available Ports
    United States

    Annapolis, MD
    Baltimore, MD
    Boston, MA
    Charleston, SC
    Earle/Leanoardo, NJ
    Gulfport, MS
    Houston/Galveston
    Honolulu, HI
    Ingleside, TX
    Key West, FL
    Kings Bay, GA
    Mayport, FL
    Miami, FL
    Mobile, AL
    Morehead City, NC
    New London/Groton
    New Orleans, LA
    New York, NY
    Newport, RI
    Norfolk, VA
    Palm Beach, FL
    Panama City, FL
    Pascagoula, MS
    Pensacola, FL
    Pearl Harbor, HI
    Philadelphia, PA
    Port Arthur, TX
    Port Canaveral, FL
    Port Everglades, FL
    Portland, ME
    Portsmouth, NH
    Savannah, GA
    Tampa, FL
  19. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    I'm going to take a lot of acid in the face here, BUT....

    The insurance company in this instance is presumably providing insurance with no date or geography barrier. That lovely trawler is going nowhere soon without it. Judy's client could not get that from his/her prior insurer. What's suspect with an insurer trying to reduce its risk by asking for a basic port of refuge plan? For the captains among us, don't you do that regularly for your clients? If the selections are stupid, then the insurer should know that up front. But if they are reasonable, the insurer should know that too. The company will calculate its premium accordingly. I am not saying the owner shouldn't read that policy for exclusions based on the plan, but, I do believe, the company does have a right to know how you will try to save the vessel, before it calculates its risk.

    How would you run your insurance company differently?

    Give me a minute to get my oilies on, thanks
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The answer to your question is NO! 25 years in this business and 27 east coast transports and we have never been asked for this. The only restriction I've encountered was not being allowed to proceed south of a certain point prior to November 15th (Charleston, Beaufort, Nags Head, Cape Fear). In fact during all that time I was only asked to even produce my Master's license 3 times. That's why all the hoopla here over this. It's unheard of.