What defines an Expedition Yacht?

I have been sailing my whole life. I grew up with/on my fathers big yawl. I have had sailing boats for the last 33 years but I am am planning my retirement boat at the moment. But my wife has decided that our retirement boat will have no sails!!!! (Travel upright in comfort and no more freezing).

IMO one of the best design bureaus for a custom designed large catamaran, max. 164 feet long and 499 GT would be Van Peteghem-Lauriot Prevost in Paris.

Something in the size of Hemisphere.

Cheers

Hi,

I can comment on Douce France, since having had the privilage to spend a lux week aboard her in the caribbean (back when it was the largest cat sailor). I never did and never will like multihulls, yet, this boat is breath taking! and it was well maintained and had a really great crew, at the end of the charter, they almost had to drag me off!!

Cheers,

Necter Belle

The other larger cat I was going to mention was Richard Branson's "Nector Belle". Hopefully you wife would find this not so wet and cold

She is up for charter as well:

http://www.neckerbelle.virgin.com/?gclid=CNvTj4r-pLYCFcqd4AodhysAsg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhm6qZxcsxM

This is a rather nice looking conversion...fisheries vessel to exploration vessel

Story and other pics here:
Enigma XK - a converted 71m fisheries vessel

Didn't these guys do that latest Tom Perkins conversion....where is that vessel?

HYS Yachts: Objective.

http://www.hys-yachts.com/a/download/APB_01.12_dr_no_refit.pdf

http://www.**********************/yacht-features/dr-no-an-underwater-exploration-yacht-par-excellence/

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/unique-custom-new-yachts/19320-expedition-yacht-dr-no.html (What happened with this discussion/reference site??)

Didn't these guys do that latest Tom Perkins conversion....where is that vessel?
(ah, here it is)
http://www.deepflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Showboats-JUNE12.pdf

HYS Yachts: Objective.

http://www.hys-yachts.com/a/download/APB_01.12_dr_no_refit.pdf

http://www.**********************/yacht-features/dr-no-an-underwater-exploration-yacht-par-excellence/

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/unique-custom-new-yachts/19320-expedition-yacht-dr-no.html (What happened with this discussion/reference site??)

Obviously marketing will put any sticker on it which, presumably, will help to make the sale.

If I had to break it down to a single word: Endurance.

And all implications that word brings.
After that? It's all a matter of preferences and choice.

Dashew FPBs have been mentioned and I think they are a good example.
Their first and foremost choice is cursing as couple, without crew. The design works to make that choice reality.
Bare aluminum exterior, it may be ugly to the glossy crowd but is certainly easier to clean and maintain. (Read: Rinse off bird droppings)
Stout enough rub rails to rub through two or three rail less RFP boats with similar price tag which have been subject to a recent thread.
Devoting large (even excessive) amounts of volume to systems and engineering space. Not hiding any systems behind shiny panels in those spaces. The chance that maintenance is actually performed is much higher when you can see something an then also can also reach it. There is a picture of a conference in the ER of a FPB64, late in the build process. Six men standing comfortably in the almost completed engine room, discussing the progress. With room for at least another six.


Another choice was a 25'CC and a ton of large toys.
So something a bit larger than 64' is necessary.


I've read that Arctic P started with "I need something that will go out of the harbor when my other yachts can't." So a salvage tug got converted. No idea how true or successful the story is.


Hanse Explorer has been mentioned.
Here the defining choice is the looking for ice, also in Winter. Ice brings it's own set of design limitations.


Back to the start of this way to long post.
Endurance for me means not only the ability to fuel and provision the ship for a long cruise but also the ability to operate and maintain it during that time (preferably longer!) without outside help.
Redundant systems, large spare inventory and certainly also the ability to maintain and repair.
Even the worst case, the much dreaded problem with the owners toilet, should be solvable without outside help.

Most 499GT Monohulled boats are way too large to fit in 99% of the marina's around anyways and end up anchoring, so rip off dockage wouldn't be too much of a concern.

Tell the reluctant wife its really bolted to the pier... and after she discovers there is a crew and its "your yacht" and the entertaining mess and bother can be left on the yacht... she'll love it.

After a few years she may graduate to harbor cruises!

IMO the term is nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell a Yacht . As it is you can buy a Yacht with transatlantic range it will do the same job sail from A to B and to where ever you want to go.

I really think the "explorer yacht" or "expedition yacht" is the at the same time the rebel and the going back to the roots of yachting.

The real roots of yachting are the enjoyment of leisure time in and about the marine environment. Certainly a beach house gets some of that but it loses the romance of travel to far away places and seeing new sights. A yacht has it all rolled into one and neighbors are a temporal bother. As a child we used to love the adventure of going out on the water and exploring new places... swimming... and all the other fun experiences of boating. Seeing the sights along the shore line replaced some of the fun as age creeps up.

However, yachting is an activity of people of means and as such there is the outdo the Jones aspect. And, this drives a lot of the very fancy yachts in the domains of the "jet or yacht set". In fact many of these people have no ideas of enjoying the marine environment and its many pleasures... often they have the boat moved from berth to berth and use it as a second or third or eighth vacation home, and importantly to impress other people in all the myriad aspects of that.

The explorer/expedition yacht is the thumbing your nose at all that and getting back to the basics. The style is typically based on working boats and shows you are not interested in mine is fancier than yours.

Any yacht can be an explorer or expedition yacht if used that way but it is the rebel that picks the work boat over the sleek design... not because he has to but to show he don't have to.

For the snail boat set there are some too, like Hortense
http://www.joubertnivelt-design.com/fiche-bateau/items/28.html

Fascinating yachts, those new large catamarans.
Much more interesting imo than say a new built J class boat: they all look the same to me and offer very little space or comfort.

I am sure you can get around those pesky SOLAS regulations if you also register it under the French Flag...

Actually, noting wrong with the French yards if you are a Francophone and keep in the francosphere... !

In definition of the foreign terms:
"In a narrower sense, the notion of "francophone" reaches beyond the dictionary definition of "French language speaker". The term specifically refers to people whose cultural background is primarily associated with French language, regardless of ethnic and geographical differences. The francophone culture beyond Europe is the legacy of the French and Belgian colonial empires. This is sometimes referred to as the francosphere."

Otherwise is might turn into a "gros bordel putain de merde"... I think google translates that about right!

Once you can translate even the first few lines of this song... you'll be fine>>> "Je me parle de toi"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcLDYIg1Ls

SkySail Assisted POWERYacht

Dear HTM09
I've read a number of your postings, and I'd like to make a particular suggestion to you for your retirement/exploration vessel.....take it or leave it, its just an idea.

I believe you should take a closer look at that Humphrey's design for a 40M SkySail Motor Yacht. Maybe look at that design with the idea of NOT putting the kite-assisted feature onboard, but perhaps retaining the small spaces needed to include that technology when it matures, or as an option that some future owner might place onboard.

You can download a study PDF of that design HERE

Other than that 'unusual technology' there are a lot of nice features to like about that design:

1) Environmentally conscience. I believe you have expressed a desire to own an environmentally conscience vessel. Properly executed this vessel could be powered with relatively few engines, and of a size to get good fuel economy. Then ultimately you might experiment around with some sort of kite arrangement for long distance trips.

You might note in their description that they utilize the term “SkySail-supplimented motor yacht”,....

“The use of the word 'supplemented' is chosen carefully. While we expect this family of boats to be able to 'sail' very efficiently under SkySail, we foresee that fundamentally the boats have to be very efficient and seakindly Motoryachts, and in this respect the common denominator for efficiency under both forms of motive power is low hull resistance. Thus our work on this generic set has evolved towards slender body hulls that derive stability from wave-piercing outriggers which will have long range capability under engine, not to mention the 'free' miles under SkySail.

What we envisage is a motoryacht with trans-ocean freedom of a large sailing yacht, able to fly the SkySail for sustained periods for relatively fast, comfortable and quiet 'sailing'”

2) The engine room is nicely positioned, readily accessible from both ends, and expandable. Short shafts, retractable prop-drives are possible.

3) Retractable prop-drives and retractable rudders could make this vessel a real shallow water capable explorer.

4) Crew accommodations in the 'basement' could still be made quite roomy and ventilated.

5) Two great master staterooms could exist, one at the fwd main deck level as shown, and one on the upper deck overlooking the 'BIG' aft deck recreation area.

6) Owner and guess accommodations are all 'above the main deck with lots of comfortable living space,...even a nice flybridge area'.

7)This 'stabilized monohull' design provides a very broad walk-around deck area, and a wide accommodations structure, while retaining a slender hull structure that is easier to push thru the water.

8) With either a fixed or fold-back rear deck structure, there is a multitude of fun recreation options on this vessel,....a fishing deck, a swimming/diving platform, RIB launching, etc.

If for some reason you didn't care for the external looks of the Humphrey's concept, you might have a look at a few illustrations I asked Mike Kajan to come up with for a shorter version.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yacht-renderings-plans/14713-mike-kajan-yacht-designs-ii-7.html
....for instance


I'm sure he could do more concepts on this theme, he is very creative that way.

For a larger vessel it might be interesting to try and adapt this ICON looking main hull and profile view.




…..just some thoughts of mine.
Brian

Brian and HTMO9,

Brian these are very intriguing concepts... and I had been think this would be a nice practical motor sailer... without the limitations of a traditional motor sailer or sail boat. The Trimaran arrangement is a nice way of having both worlds with a few trade offs too...

I have a suggestion to add... as both of you have posted in the Diesel Electric thread quite a bit... and suffered my musings on some ideas... but here is a practical one:
That is the propulsion power for reasonable speeds of maybe 12-18 knots max will not be great here. It would be possible to use diesel electric propulsion. Now that would be an added engineering expense up front and could add considerably to the mass. I have a suggestions to this end. You could hire Voith provide a package. You could use a "power pack" of the diesel electric type... already engineered...

http://voith.com/en/products-services/power-transmission/voith-powerpacks-9995.html

Then use retractable Voith Inline Propulsor for propulsion

http://voith.com/en/products-servic...ne-thruster-voith-inline-propeller-11014.html

If you had two diesel electric power packs and only an emergency / night generator you could use electric converters like Electronic Motor drives type power supplies for the hotel loads at selectable 50/60 Hz and most any voltage you wanted... makes shore power easier... these would be supplied off the variable output of the traction generators. These are everyday equipment supplied by many manufacturers... and cheap, small and efficient.

Hybridizing it would be possible by adding some batteries... but don't think you can get a reasonable setup and provide propulsion off the batteries... just overnight hotel... One of the two main "generators" could be run for short periods and completely recharge the hotel needs in a couple hours while at anchor so quiet enjoyment of remote locations is possible as well as the need to anchor out often without building in huge engine hours on the gen sets... the boat would not fit as well in the marine being wider as you mentioned.

Retirement vessel

The dark cloud of our brainstorm is getting thinner. The type of boats narrow down to 3,5 (!) different kind of vessel.

1. If the "Admiral" surrenders and this floating home will have mast(s) and sail(s), it will be a multihull type (upright sailing !). I hope the Admiral never reads this joke about "the most stable position of a catamaran is upside down".

The behavior of a multihull in the waves is so different from a monohull, you have to get used to it. And there is even a large difference in behavior between a catamaran and a trimaran or its derivations. Looking at all those special types of trimarans, wavepierces, LCS or whatever, besides their strange look, their behavior in heavy sea does not seem to be snugly. At least the US Navy is not very happy with her Litoral Combat Ship in heavy sea ("We like to stay near the coast in bad weather", the skipper). So it rather be a catamaran with normal rigging and limited airdraft, in order to pass below the bridge of the Öresund in Denmark (around 180 ft) to enable entering of the baltic sea. All the rest is TBD.

2. If the winner is the Explorer / Trawler type, it will be something, looking like a bigger version of Hanse Explorer. Ice classed, single VP-propeller but double engine via two in one gear and shaft generator on gear, dry exhaust stacks with exhaust gas cleaning and keel cooling via heat exchanger pockets, retractable fin stabilizer and two clean diesel gensets plus emergency genset.
Long range, hot and cold weather capable. Sturdy, heavy duty design, unfaired hull, DP capable. But it must not fly, nor submerge and not being capable of driving on roads (My favorite, if no sail)

3. Last but not least a "normal" displacement yacht with longer range (5000 NM at 12 to 14 Kts) with a proven hull and contemporary design.

3.5 This variant would be a yacht version of a vessel that does not rock on the water at all. Insider call that beast SWATH. This is the Admirals favorite. She has been on one in open sea, she really liked it.

Cheers

Well then I see you hanging around Abeking & Rasmussen in the future.

And, if you throw large parties and cater to the the Lady Admiral... she might let you be first officer and handle all the routine details... before she orders you back to port.

Wasn't that what I was suggesting with this posting over in the diesel-electric subject thread?....a hybrid. Basically I was taking in to account the findings by Nigel Calder that you need to move away from DE for your full speed operation, and only consider it for your lower speed requirements and 'hotel' needs.

LCS Ship Motion,..problem?

I'd like to explore this observation a bit more. There is no doubt that multihulls have a more 'exaggerated motion' in most seas. The sailing versions with their bigger beams are particular culprits when it comes to responding to 'traditional rolling' in a very exaggerated manner. Overall size and weight of the vessel can also be a contributing factor. Its perhaps interesting to see that many 'traditional sailors' have adapted to the motions of multihulls considering their much broader acceptance over the years?

I wonder if the US Navy is unhappy with her tri-hull LCS? I believe this comment came from a captain who was trying to conduct some acceptance trials for a specialized piece of hardware to be towed behind the ship. And he was constrained by a tight time-frame to get the trials done. Poor weather and sea conditions were interfering with those test. Handling that big expensive, one-of-a kind, piece of towed hardware on the deck of any vessel would be chore enough, let alone on a 'stabilized monohull' with a big open deck for things to slide around on. I think that is why he perferred to stay near to shore....to get the test done in the time frame he had been given,...and to get support contractors and replacement parts out to the ship in a timely manner since the piece of towed hardware was being very troublesome.

I further speculate that many 'traditional captains' will have some 'experiences getting use to that different motion presented by the tri-hull warship verses the traditional one. But when they experience the enhanced performance capabilities, many will be won over.

BTW this tri-hull warship does NOT have the extreme beam of a sailing cat or tri, NOR does it have the full buoyancy outer hulls. So its motion will not be anywhere like the sailing multihulls, but rather like a dampened monohull

So I would have to see more negative comments on this vessel's motion before I would give it credence. As far as I know the principle complaint about this tri-hull LCS has to do with corrosion problems with the alum hull...not properly protected.

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2011/pdf/navy/2011lcs.pdf

I'm not so sure that it's out of design specs for a litoral combat ship to be limited to the litoral zone in rough seas. I am not certain, but I'd imagine that they would have done a few things differently if they were making a deep water tri.