What is the margin on a new build production yacht?

You misread my numbers. The 27% would be the dealer's markup, not the manufacturer's. So on that $4,000,000 boat it would put the dealer's cost (before expenses) at about $3,100,000, and the manufacturer's hoped for cost before expenses at about $2,000,000. The reality today though, with concessions and warranties, incentives, etc. is that the out the door manufacturer's cost would be closer to $3,000,000, the end buyer's price closer to $3,500,00 and the dealer's profit after expenses close to zero. All guesstimates however. The bottom line remains that the information is useless to a buyer's negotiation strategies, unlike knowing the dealer's price on a car.

And some have better designers than other, not fair...

On production boats most designers just have a royalty, so no cost at all for the builder before a boat is sold...

But of course a bad design can be expensive.

I think the general idea has been nailed that no one is in business for free.

There is NO "cartel" pricing.

Having first hand knowledge of an International yacht producer, Pricing is like any product in any industry. There are an infinite amount of items that go into the costs to produce one yacht.

You have to look at the "lay of the land" what money is out in the market and what are people able/willing to pay for your design, quality, performance and prestige.

All of the boats from 28' to 120' made a comfortable profit.

I firmly believe that no nation that produces a product, be it yachts or tires or..., should ever allow a foreign made product to be sold within it's borders for less than a domestic manufacturer can sell their version. It's the only way to level the playing field. But of course manufacturers chasing subsidies and cheap labor would never allow that.

If that was the case you'd be paying 3x as much for everything. Competition keeps prices in check and also keeps more new designs coming so that 1 competitor can sell more than the next.

Consumers really dictate prices and quality. They are the driving force between what sells and what doesn't because they are the ones that are buying it. Some people, like myself, have come to the conclusion that the cheaper Chinese household goods are generally poor quality, don't do as good of a job, and don't last, so I avoid Chinese made household goods completely. Others just want the cheapest product and could careless if it lasts or works good. And sometimes cheap owners become quality owners.....I've seen lots of Bayliner owners become Searay owners next time around, then become say a Hatteras owner.......because they learn the differences as they go. However if they couldn't afford to get into the cheap boat the first time around, they may never have gotten into yachting.

This isn't Cuba where they only sell 1 brand and type of lightbulb, and you better like it because you have no other choice.

People are willing to pay a premium for a good design and great quality. Look at the Premium people pay for a Feadship or Luursen over others.

European builders have to have subsidies in order to sell anything. Their extremely high employee/government taxes and short working hours have made them totally globally uncompetitive with the rest of the world.

Look at France and their taxing structure. If you make over $1mill the government takes 75% of it. why bother. But the problem is, everything you buy is heavily taxed on top of that. Governments squander ANY amount of tax income they take in, yet the more you tax and the more it costs to produce something, the less globally competitive you'll be until you reach a point that your goods are so expensive that nobody outside of your country will buy them. During the last 4 years the US has spent more than at any other time and doubled it's deficit. Yet, I don't see ANY improvement. We don't have better roads, we don't have better infrastructure, we don't have new mass transit systems, the money has all been squandered on things that haven't improved the life of the taxpayers one bit...... The president has been spouting about building infrastructure: roads, bridges, and highways for 4 years. WHERE ARE THEY????

Unfortunately the reality is that by the time that Bayliner owner moves up to Hatteras they'll find that Hatteras is being built like a Bayliner or the company is out of business because they paid a livable wage to their employees and had to charge accordingly. Have you tried to buy an American built household appliance lately? They don't exist. Have you looked at the quality of the wires and other parts in your appliances lately? You have no choice but to buy garbage, because that's all that exists. Even China, who destroyed American manufacturing by offering the equivalent of slave labor is now loosing their business to Cambodia, because their citizens are fed up working at slave rates. We've all seen the videos of ship breaking in Bangladesh where they work for I believe $0.32 a day with zero safety protection or benefits until their bodies give out. The price of labor cannot be the measure by which we choose where to manufacture. That's a race to the lowest standards. We have to get back to competing on the basis of quality or we all (except the multi-national corporate executives) lose, and the only way to accomplish that is to control the price of imported goods. We used to buy Swiss watches because they were the best, but they were expensive. Now most buy throw-aways because they're cheap, but they're not cheap because they're manufactured here. That's wrong. If things are more expensive it doesn't matter if our wages match.

American made household appliances do indeed exist. Most all Whirlpool and Maytag appliances are made in Ohio, for example. If you look and are willing to spend the money for quality we still do make household appliances and kitchen items and various things. Sub Zero/Wolf is made in Georgia.

Why do you keep saying that companies keep screwing employees out of paying decent wages? Hatteras pays very fair wages to their employees. As do most other American Yacht Manufacturers. It's really rather simple. If an employee doesn't get paid what they think is fair, they are free to get a different job elsewhere. If all of the other jobs elsewhere pay the same or less, they are making what they are worth as an employee for their area. Plain and simple. If companies screwed their employees out of a fair wage, they wouldn't have any employees. Or, the employees they have would be worth what little they're paying. An Employee is worth, what someone else is willing to pay them for their skillset, nothing more. What is anything worth? A yacht, a house, a car, an employee???? What someone else is willing to pay for that item in a reasonable amount of time.

But, when the cost of manufacturing becomes too high companies will manufacture elsewhere so they can still have a price that the item sells. For example, Rule super switches are made in Costa Rica, the first year of the new style switches made in Costa Rica were total garbage that only lasted 4-6 months. They seem to be reliable now.

Today's Hatteras / Cabo issue is not the result of employee wages, it goes above to management level decisions and lost market share.

Made in America - Amana Microwaves, DCS Cooktops, Viking and many others. Unless of course you want that special $49.99 through away microwave from overseas

Actually most of these items you'll find are "assembled" in America. And yes, Hatteras does pay their employees fairly. They're also laying them off and looking for a buyer. Sorry, but the only way to compete on quality is to protect your territory. That means making the garbage made abroad more expensive than the good merchandise made at home. That goes for all countries, not just the U.S. European workers aren't about to work for $0.32 a day either. So all manufacturing heads for countries where they can exploit the labor force. Only the rich can afford the few items actually made in the U.S. or Europe. It should be that only the rich can afford imported items, and they do it because the quality is that good (Swiss clocks). Every nation's first choice should be to buy the products they've manufactured. There is something inherently wrong when an item shipped from half-way around the world is cheaper than what's made down the block. The only way to stop "cheap" from being the sole reason for choosing a manufacturing location is to make "cheap" expensive. That means tariffs.

I don't believe only rich American's can afford American Made goods. For example a washer and dryer set that is imported and made cheaply is only $100 less for the set than a Whirlpool set. If you buy the quality item it's life cycle will end up saving you more than the difference compared to 3rd world garbage. I buy high quality products (not just US) and take care of them and keep them a long time......For example, I spent the money and bought a complete Wusthoff classic kitchen knive set, and as long as I take care of it and sharpen them every few years, they'll last my entire lifetime, but they cut like a dream and make it a joy in the kitchen instead of fighting with garbage knives everytime I cook.

Tariff's don't work and haven't worked in the past. Because the other countries just jack up their tariff's and it creates more of a stalemate. Think of how many items we can buy from Mexico tariff free, compared to the 1 new Hatteras the rich Mexican guy buys because of NAFTA amd we still end up with not much of a trade deficit. The more the government stays out of business, the better off we all are. Just look at the governments investment into dozens and dozens of green energy companies that have all gone bankrupt.

Anyways, I believe we are getting too far off topic here.

Amen, to all of this...

It s hard to find US made product but possible.. I spent a little while find a made in the USA electric planer the other day, but finally found a Makita made in Georgia... A few bucks more but worth it

Been shopping for bronze hardware for the little sailboat I m building... Took me a while to find bronze portholes not made in china but i did. From Spartan marine in Maine.. At the boat show last year I walked up to a booth that has a nice selection.. Asked where they were made? "We ve been in business for 30 years and these are made by an American plant in china"

I agree that tariff and government isn't the solution but I wish labeling was clearer. It is extremely difficult to know where stuff is made especially on line. you have to find the fine print yo see where a power tool or appliance is made... or For instance take a look at the newfound metal website and catalog, good luck finding the country of origin

Another reason for moving production overseas is our socialist tax rates... Why should any company who tries to compete overseas manufacture anything in this country and pay the highest corporate tax rate in the world?? And then have its executives ridiculed for not paying their fair share or flying on a private jet?

If they can afford a private jet they don't have too much to complain about. As for the guy who said "made by an American company in China", I think I'd have had to smack him. It's made in China by an American company that doesn't support America. PERIOD!

Why shouldn't someone have the right to fly in a private jet if they are successful, have built up a large company, and employ 1,000s of people? Why should the government take a higher percentage of tax from one person than the next person. Honestly, every single person should pay the same tax rate. That would be fair. Should you be charged $8 a gallon for gasoline, while you're neighbor who works at Walmart get gasoline for $4 a gallon? Why should one person be penalized, by paying a tax rate that's twice as high as his employees when he's the successful one, he's risking it all.

Nobody minds paying a fair amount of tax. Everybody doesn't want to be gouged by government tax, no matter what their income. Every government squanders most of the tax money they take in. The more they take, the more they spend, the average citizen see's no improvement.

Yeah! As a employer, why should I pay my employees minimum wage when people from Mexico and China are willing to take the jobs for 50c/hr?Should it be determined by the free market?After all, I'm the successful one risking it all. Oh wait....Are we talking about logic/fairness or humanity?

CaptJ, out of respect for YF I'll simply say that the answer to your question lies in the pages of history, and leave it at "If they can afford a private jet they don't have too much to complain about". I believe the OP's question has been answered. So I'll step out now.