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Towing vs Davit.....

Discussion in 'Carver Yacht' started by hopper5, Dec 2, 2012.

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  1. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Hopper5

    Have you tried running without th tender and some of the other weight yet? I'd start with the easiest possible solution first?? There is a real chance that the boat is just overloaded....
  2. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    There is no way a 800 lb (max) tender is dragging the boat down that much. I've had way over 800 lbs of people on board my boat with gas engines and only lost maybe 1.5 mph at cruise.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Any body have any specs on original wheel diameter? I'm still believe no speed and making rpm is a sign (billboard sized).
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    23x24 stamped or reported to be. Do you have a spare set? Can you read the last stamps on them?
  5. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    RB480

    I am certainly no expert, but why not try the simple things first? The op in his first post says a lot of granite and other things were added by a previous owner. That means weigh and 3116 in a 44 is not exactly overpowered. I have 820's in a 50 and full fuel and water can drop,me 2 knots. Why not check the weight? It doesn't cost as much as a short haul and a prop tune
  6. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    It could all stem from the additional marble and tile the previous owner fitted,
    the props could have been trimmed to reduce load and increase rpm.

    The fact that the water line had to be raised should be ringing an alarm bell as loud as the no oil pressure one.

    There is a sad but great book called An American Tragedy that covers the loss of two boats in calm water that had the waterline raised a few times - so much in one case the designer dud not recignise his own design at the enquiry.
  7. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    Great info.....

    Thanks again for all of your help......my props are 23 x 24 and the trim tabs measure 42" x 9". According to the diver they don't extend very much past the plane of the hull. Normal ?? I am going to try removing the dinghy and "lightening the load" a bit and see what performance I get. They are 3116's with 300hp a side so not overpowered according to the "experts" I have talked to in Seattle. Some say that 17 to 20 kts is a pipe dream for the boat, but I keep hearing otherwise on this forum so I am going to continue the hunt for actual planing speed.......As a side note I do have the original manual that has a method of determining weight while the boat is in the water. There is a measurement from a point on the gunnel to the water and a formula for that specific hull. I will try to get to that soon........I will also contact a prop shop and see what they say.....
  8. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    One more thing.......While I am running at higher rpms there is water that "burbles" on the aft part of the swimstep and gets the dinghy cover wet.......normal?? I never had that issue with my Tolly but it was 10' shorter.....Also the service shop that mentioned raising the waterline stripe now says he did not actually say or do that. Just more confusion but regardless it is what it is !!
  9. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    If you can post a picture of the boat I should be able to tell pretty easily if the waterline has been raised at all.
  10. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    pictures.......

    Here are a couple of pics.....I know they don't show a great side view, but it's all I have at this point. I will post a better one next time I get to the boat.

    Attached Files:

  11. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    One more

    Here is another pic.......I can't verify when it was actually taken. It was before I purchased the boat.....
    4028673_20120802161115_1_LARGE.jpg
  12. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    x2

    Accurate speed trials coupled with a digital prop scan will reveal a lot. The props may have been changed for any number of reasons. Propellers move boats not engines. You could double the hp in the boat but it is still going to go the same speed at that rpm. What is your transmission ratio? We could run a basic slip calculation with that number.

    When you consider how much weight has been added compare that to the weight of the fuel with full tanks vs 1/4 tanks. Running on 1/4 tank will probably offset the remodeling weight.
  13. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    Thanks again......the transmissions are ZF with a 2.04 : 1 ratio. Exactly what is a digital prop scan ??
  14. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Ok so if I've got your numbers correct.

    24" pitch x 2400 rpm / 2.04 ratio / 12" per foot = 2352.941 ft / min

    2353 ft / min x 60 min / 6076 ft = 22.2351 kn

    And you are getting 12 knots? 50% slip is way too high. Either my math is wrong or your props are. Or both:D

    A digital prop scan where a digitizing device is used to scan the geometry of the prop and determine it's true size and pitch as well as a host of other dimensions. It's pretty common now.
  15. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    Thanks for the numbers.........I'm not sure what to make of the slippage %. What is typical ?? My thought on the 2400 vs 12 kt issue is IF I could get her up on plane then either a) I get more speed for the same rpm or b) she falls off the plane once I throttle back to 2400rpm. The question is after I lighten her up a bit whether I can get her up on plane at full throttle (2800rpm) and then keep her there at a lessor rpm.........
  16. RB480

    RB480 Senior Member

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    Judging by the pics of the boat, the waterline has not been raised. Since the striping is also the Carver blue/grey they used in 1994 that also leads me to believe that they have not been changed.Almost all of the 440s that I have dealt with have been known to look a little stern heavy in the rear when they have diesels and a moderate amount of fuel in them.

    I definitely say weight has some play in the factor but it shouldn't be dragging you down that much.

    I am thinking somewhere along the lines the props have been taken out of factory spec. Its possible one of the prior owners always ran the boat at hull speed and changed the props to maximize fuel efficiency at lower rpms vs. speed?
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Got another angle for thought; Do you have fuel flow meters? Can you check fuel flow at wot or cruise?
  18. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    I wish I had flow meters.......no such luck. I did look at Cat's specs and came up with what the different gal/hr are suppose to be for the motors......It's amazing the difference between 2400 and 2000 and even 2200 vs 1800 rpm......for a couple of knots I can get 10 kts at 1800 vs 12 at 2400 (without planing) yet have the fuel burn.
  19. hopper5

    hopper5 Member

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    This may not be the thread to do this but I just wanted to say thanks to all of you that have given me your time and info with my Carver issues. If any of you are ever in Wa state please let me know and dinner and drinks on the boat are my treat.........
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    My thought is, at wot, you should be consuming approx 30gph total. If your NOT burning (consuming) that much, then the mains are not loaded correctly, witch may also show poor prop grip. 50% slippage, shown below, is another piece of evidence that your not throwing enough water past the wheels. No-load / load max rpm would be the good indicator of this also.

    Don't let that number scare you. It's more efficient than what your doing now.

    Dropping the tabs down and helping make a plane at lower rpm is great. Ya got to get out of the hole to plane, your NOT there. Tabs will help, the UmPah has to be there with or with out tabs.

    You should be out of the hole and starting to fly at WOT. Once we get you up and running on plane, THEN we can find some sweet spots in a slower planing / cruising speed / consumption.