Beginners Questions!

That looks more like monthly expenses if you ask me.... although if you dont go out except for the summer (3 months) then I suppose it could be less...

generally, rule of thumb is 10% of entire boat for yrly expenses, but the berth isnt included afaik...

Hi Abdoosh, and welcome. Are you actually settled on the particular boat? It looks in fact you are entering this as a joint venture (you mention "co-buying"). I am curious about the details of the other party involved in this transaction. Are they knowledgeable and experienced in all matters marine or are they, uh, in the same boat as you? The reason I ask is that co-buying means co-management...you are never truly autonomous.

In any event, assuming that you have already vetted and are willing to place substantial trust in the co-buyer, have you guys actually decided for sure that you are purchasing the Azimut? When people relatively new to boating come to the board, one of the wisest pieces of advise I have seen offered is that the prospective buyer actually charter a similar boat to see if that is really what they want. I would echo this sage advice here. Expectations when it comes to an idealistic and romantic notion of "being at sea" can deviate significantly from reality.

All the Blessings to you and good luck...

John M

I agree, charter first, a number of times and on a number of boat types/brands. And ask lots of questions of the captains and brokers about the costs of ownership.

For a boat between 18 and 24 meters you should estimate between 1500 and 6000 Euros per year for maintenance, insurance, berth (depending on your cruising area, French Riviera is not the cheapest), technical upgrades and so on depending on how much work you´re able and willing to do yourself or if you hire someone to take care of the boat. Calculate your estimation on the higher side to put some money aside for bigger repairs, they will be neccessary some day.
This number does obviously not include fuel for cruising and fulltime paid hands aboard.

i will try to lay down the cost items you should consider;

- maintenance - very much depend on the boat conditions, but assume anywhere between 50 to 100k per annum
- berth fees - you can check marina fees at the location you want to keep the boat, but you should also calculate the visits to foreign marinas, which may be substantial if you travel often. fyg, for home berth, even if you buy the berth there will still be service charges for you.
- dry docking - check a marina's list price for dry storage and add lifting and putting back to water charges
- fuel - azimut 62 could burn around at least 150 liters per hour when you travel, but do not underestimate the generator consumption. generators work longer hours than engines and you consume around 5-10 liters per hour, depending on the size of your generator
- insurance - assume euro 20k per annum
- paid hands - this may very well be the highest amount of all if you are to hire a captain and a deckhand. above the salaries, you may need to calculate their costs as well.
- care taking - during off periods you may need somebody to take care of the boat, if you are not going to hire a captain for round the year.

wish you success...

These look more like per month costs, not per year.

Hi Nilo, are you basing the 50-100 K/yr figure on roughly 10% of boat value per year? Just curious how you came up with this number (it does sound reasonable, just wanna know your calculus...)

John

Not really, 10pct rule is for total expns based on the new price (one should not assume the older the boat the lower the expns - or the cheaper the boat the less one spends).

I take these ball park figures based on gut feeling, which of course has accumulated in me during the years i have been involved with boats. Presently i am paying expns for 4 boats varying in size from 51 to 98 feet including sailboats and i had also experience with azimut and ferretis in the past. So, there is no formula other than sheer experience.

You´re right, sorry. I lost a few important words while editing my post. What i originally wanted to say that the given numbers are realistic per year and meter of boat length for 18-24 meters.
That´s from own experience (although on the lower side) living on a 65ft. boat.

For a boat between 18 and 24 meters you should estimate between 1500 and 6000 Euros per year and meter for maintenance, insurance, berth (depending on your cruising area, French Riviera is not the cheapest), technical upgrades and so on depending on how much work you´re able and willing to do yourself or if you hire someone to take care of the boat. Calculate your estimation on the higher side to put some money aside for bigger repairs, they will be neccessary some day.
This number does obviously not include fuel for cruising and fulltime paid hands aboard.

That makes a lot of sense. I don't see how a "formula" of any kind could be accurate. After all, boats are boats. In my experience, there is a base line minimum that would harken a blessed season if it matched the actual budget; while other years are littered with expensive contingencies. The bottom line is that boats have the uncanny "ability" to adhere to the second law of thermodynamics: entropy reigns supreme. That is to say that forces are constantly at play to take that which is ordered and fling it into chaos. Oil looses its lubricity, heat exacts a toll on machinery, salt finds its way into every crevice to oxidize with reckless abandon.

We mariners invest a great deal of time, energy and money to mitigate entropy. To the best of our ability we try to combat the insidious creep or disorder, which in the end will always prevail. Those who plan better, those who attend to detail are rewarded by staving off vessel scenescence a bit longer than the unwary. It takes constant energy (effort) to slow down this process.

Even still, the best of planning is often frustrated with the unexpected, and there is no formula available, that I am aware, that will accurately predict such events.

So my point is that I plan a budget based on expected costs of maintenance, slip fees, etc.; all the while knowing that the opportunity to pour cash into a catastrophe lurks just around the bend.

John

All the berths in Monaco belong to the Crown State, so buying a berth is almost impossilbe. If you happen to be a friend of the Prince and rule your own oil rich country, that may help.

In Port Vauban, Antibes it is possible for a 10 year lease at around 330 to 350,000 Euros for a 23m berth. That is about 3000 a month to start with, then electric on top of that too. Not that cheap these days.

This. Honestly, I have been pining to buy, and having never even chartered a boat, I'm going to take this advice to heart.

So, my challenge here is that I've looked for charters in the Nordhavn 50+ space, and its actually difficult to find here in the USA. I'm not sure that's because Nordhavn isn't as popular, or because its simply not popular for charters... either way, I'd love to know if there is anyone on this forum that has experience with a Nordhavn.

Just spoke to a mate of mine, who has just purchased a large Nordhavn, "are you going to do the odd charter"?

"No, no it's just for the family". This seems a normal answer from all the owners I've met. Back to the Boat Shows or charter something similar like a Delta in the charter market.