Yacht building in China??

Hi,

You are using a very broad brush to criticise the whole country there.

I would lay even money on the machine you were using to type that having a large part if not all it's origins in the PRC.

They have their cowboys no doubt, I am told by those I know who have things manufactured for them in the PRC that it can be two ways to look at it, pay next to nothing for a knock off and what you get will be what one would expect for the price, pay more and the quality increases till it can't be differentiated from main stream Western Manufacture but still costs less than doing it at home.

I sure am, and make no apology about it. Here in the Bay Area keyboards, motherboards, and a lot of things were built either in Japan, Taiwan or in Texas. Now it's nearly all Chinese, but without the quality. In the old days we would have rattled sabers, but now we have to give in and let them own 50% of any company that does business with them?

In the 80s both Taiwan and Japan had knockoffs of IBM, Bell and Howell, Hewlett Packard computers and more. But law enforcement and the courts cracked down on those people. "Pear" was one of the big illegal Apple clones. But now we can't even do that with the Chicoms because of their status. And then when you cruise their sites they claim they invented everything. You got Chinese kids posting vids on Youtube about X-Wing fighters being made in China and ready to defend Chinese airspace in case the US and our friends get uppity.

I'm really tired of China. They could make the most fabulous yacht immagineable, that would rival Oktopus, and sell it dirt cheap so that the common multimiliionaire or upper class networth million office worker could have one. I still say they're long over due for sanctions and then some.

The only advantage the PRC has over North Korea is that they're willing to play ball, but they cheat from here til tomorrow.

Anyway, I've had my soapbox moment. Thanks

And it will be your last. This thread is about building boats in China, not computer components or your political rant. If you have nothing further to add, then I'll be happy to subtract your membership.

Blue Ghost... blowing off some steam ... Though I would have to agree, it's getting a little frustrating on how much money is getting lost with those boat building nations to the Chinese as there’s really a lot of inferior products coming out (good as well).

I would have to agree with Capt there as well, and it's also frustrating that the quality control (standards) are so broad, I think that really has to change. A family friend had there "made in China" boat up on the hard the other day, they have had it for a few years now, but a simple hammer test to the keel failed and a whole lot of water came out.... 20g's later.

There's also some positives out of this I feel, as Nav Archs and Engineers are coming up with better and quicker solutions for building boats which in theory should be less labour and should lower the costs of vessels.

Far

What I see as a large part of that problem, or scenario, is the Chinese deliver what the importer accepts. If the importer has low standards then his customers get substandard products.

As mentioned previously, PAE maintains quality control and they have gained a good reputation for it. Another importer of a name brand yacht accepts absolute crap and that is what he delivers to the customer.

An unknowing customer base is what keeps the crooks in business and allows garbage to flood the market. We (at least most of us I think) grew up with high quality goods and still believe that there are market defenses against shoddy goods but in today's economy and the world of less-than-ethical business practices it really is a buyer beware situation even when it comes to big ticket boats.

Well said Marmot! As always...

Understood, mister moderator.

Well, the Ad-Astra was built in Hong Kong, but was designed by Anton Marton. But Hong Kong, even though China's retaken possession of her, isn't the PRC proper. I did come across a promotional video on Youtube for a PRC yacht construction firm, and their big selling point was that their hulls were made of aluminum-steel, and could withstand impacts with objects out at sea (they showed an animation of one hitting a log). The promo was sleek enough, though the yacht itself left much to be desired visually as it looked like a toy boat with a high prow. Given the PRC's history of products I wondered how durable this thing was.

Ship building in general has always been a Chinese tradition. Historically they were light years ahead of other civilizations. I won't knock their history and pure capability to build vessels, nor yachts themsevles, but one wonders if their production standards are like the rest of their industrial base. I remember seeing several news' documentaries on Chinese products in the last year on the substandard materials the use, and I couldn't help but wonder about that yacht promotional video I saw (I wish I could find the link and post it).

So, the Chinese build yachts, of that there is no doubt, but, like a lot of their stuff it's probably best to give the merchandise the once over. Or, like many an industry reminds its customers, "buyer beware."

First off let me correct any misconception that I was redirecting the discussion to products other than boats,...perhaps I left some wording or thoughts out. This 'computer problem' was a specific example I could relate to directly as a case where some small subcontrator (singular capacitor maker) in the Chinese manufacturing process can affect a finished product that ends up being sold here on the American market.

This could just as well been some resin maker or fiberglass weaver that supplied that BoatBuilder with his raw materials. Or maybe it was another supplier who provided sandwich core material like that defective Chinese drywall product that got sold all over the USA.

One must understand that MANY of these subcontractors in the Chinese process are nothing more that garage operations (literally) that must source their materials from a selection that is MUCH less sophisticated that the sources available in the western world.

You really have to visit some of these sub-contractor 'businesses' to see what really goes on. On one hand it is unblievable what they can turn out from a garage operation, and on the other you have to question their business practices to do 'anything' to statisfy that deal they have and both 'collect the money!' and save face.

Regrettably you are correct in much of what you say that the importer's job for quatlity control is more important than what many of them are accepting respondsibilty for. In some cases the details of faults are actually hidden from the factory inspectors as this might delay production and result in delays in payments. MONEY is THE driving force in many of these instances, and the Chinese are VERY MONEY driven.

Likewise the importer is looking to get his product built at the low wage price, and may overlook some 'minor problems' that eventually could become major problems in the finished product. Regrettably even the American (or other foreign) importers can be faulted for not insisting on certain quality stds that they will be required to warranty once the product enters the market here. One of the other matters that I sought to outline with the 'computer example' was how some of these major brand name importers were sherking their warranty responsibilites by not repairing all of their faulty merchandise, nor pulling it from the market, and/or utilizing various tricky spin policies to go around the problem.

Per your quote, "We (at least most of us I think) grew up with high quality goods and still believe that there are market defenses against shoddy goods but in today's economy and the world of less-than-ethical business practices it really is a buyer beware situation even when it comes to big ticket boats".
Wow, does that mean we really need to employ a fully registered surveyor even on a brand new vessel? Sounds like it doesn't it.

PS: Don't know how many remember or experienced how long it took for the Taiwan boatbuilders to get their act together.

Not that there is any such thing as a "fully registered" surveyor although there are plenty of hammer whackers with alphabet certifications running around the smaller boat business, but to answer your question, someone needs to look out for the buyer's interest and except for a tiny minority, it isn't the importer or sales organization.

Even when one of those boats is "built to class" the end product may not meet buyer expectations or otherwise well defined industry (or even IACS) standards.

When no one is looking or no one checks that the boat is the same as drawn, designed, and specified, the builder will take every shortcut possible and the importer is highly unlikely to support the buyer over the builder. After all, one buyer doesn't put as much money in his pocket as the builder.

In addition, don't think for one moment that a skewered buyer is going to make a public admission that he got screwed and now owns a lemon. He can only hope to dump the boat, hope he doesn't lose too much and get on with life with or without another boat.

A shoddy builder and an unethical importer are a threat to the livelihood of those who earn an honest living in the yachting industry.

I found the video I saw earlier this year (around Feb or March I think).

[ Jade Yachts ]Taiwan Luxury Yachts-- Jade Yachts 95" - YouTube

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