Yacht building in China??

I have had experience in building and operating a yacht in Taiwan. It is an 80ft flybridge yacht, fiberglass, we had a very good experience, the yacht has been flawless (as flawless as a yacht can be, anyways)...

Building in taiwan was (when we built in 2005) already about 30% more expensive than china iirc, but still mich more economical than the US or euro. We had a full time owners representative and engineer, visited the factry more than 10 times during build, etc, so we put in a lot of effort (it is a semi-custom build - production hull and superstructure, all interior/deck decoration and layout is custom). During build we spent a lot of time with ppl from the factory and we were told that chinese factories didnt have the same quality as the taiwanese ones, although the problem in china was mainly due to management. So what they were doing was taking taiwanese managers to china to help imrpvoe the quality...

Anyways, we had absolutely no quality issues, maybe some minor things we swapped out which we thought werent very well specced (but we could have had those changed in the shipyard too - some hoses, etc), the taiwanese woodwork is second to none, i have yet to see woodwork like theirs (and i'm comparing to western yards...)


Good luck to all, i have seen MANY useless yards over there, but i had a very good experience.

my 0.02...

I think there is a misunderstanding here about "Chinese Built".
It would be like saying "European Built". In other words is Holland same as Italy or Croatia?

The difference between Taiwan or Hong Kong compared to MAINLAND China build is the issue. Stating Chinese built is not definitive enough.
Best comparison I have heard is that in boat building, China is where Taiwan was 30 years ago.
Cheoy Lee (Hong Kong) cannot be put in the same category as an average yard in China. Same goes for the builders of Offshore Yachts (Taiwan) and Jet Tern.

Having said all that, I read a good article about the Marlow factory in China. So it comes down to research and asking the right people.

Do you have a link or a reference to that article?

There's a challenge!
It was quite a while ago, before the GFC and Mr. Marlow was expounding on his new factory and his high level supervision. I will have a look over old articles. It was not on the net but in the days I bought many magazines, Yachting, etc.
Cheers
G

Well there is another reason the internet has made magazines irrelevant.
I Googled Marlow Ship Yard and the return was terrible. I don't need to give details. Just Google for yourselves.
On the one hand it should keep the manufacturers “honest” on the other, this immediate response can be dangerous if a company knows how to use the search engines to tilt the facts their way.
BTW it is not difficult to turn a negative response on a search engine into a positive IF you know the terrain. Meantime, my opinion of Marlow is now awaiting deeper research/opinion. I have been on 2 and thought the layout was terrific, with bulkhead design giving so much more room, which I was told was due to better engineering. Had owners tell me the same. Apparently not?
All this quick response information needs to be digested carefully.

Re: mainland Chinese yard quality

I note that Nordhavn builds their 120-footer in mainland China, but then sails it clear across the Pacific on its own bottom to finish it at Dana Point. There have to be good reasons for doing so. Given the attractive labor rate in mainland China, quality of wiring and componentry has to be paramount.

I think you have it right Kafue. Taiwan has been building for many years now. mainland China is an upstart, and that cheap labor supply just can't have that innate knowledge of yacht building. Having said that can you imagine having a 'production manager' who can stand watch over all the individual aspects of the yacht construction as well as each worker's job.

In Taiwan's early days I can recall the numerous charter fleet (and individual vessels) that Bill Stevens was having built over there. Almost every vessel had to be 'redone' once it reached US shores, particularly the electrical systems that were relatively simple on these vessels.

I see lots of praise for Cheoy Lee, and I have seen some praise for their more recent builds in the yacht press (like Marco Polo and Maru), but I think I recall a LOT of complaints about interior varnish coming apart, and I was recently offered a large (abt 45m) cheoy lee yacht which was a fiberglass boat that had extensive interior problems and hull delamination (the boat was less than 20yrs old - I suppose maintenance mustnt have been up to par, but still it was apparently a major project to get back on track, and it was a nice "platform" on paper)... so my question: what is the deal with cheoy lee?

truth being told, the interior problems (i think they were rported right here on YF?) were on older boats, maybe 1990's? and the big one with hull delam and interior issues was a late 1990s or early 2000 iirc... so not a reflection of CL recently... but I got curious? were they worse in quality and then turned around? are the issues i'm referencing just bad apples in a good bunch (and I'm aware that all shipyards have problems)... really, I'd just like to get the real deal on this... (being always in the market :d sometimes I come across some cheoy lees and so far my instinct has been to move away, maybe it was a stupid instinct?)

EDIT: found one older thread which, together with its linked threads, may have started my "misconception?" for cheoy lee? http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/cheoy-lee-yacht/5347-please-rate-cheoy-lee.html so what is it? misconception or are they really cheoy leakies? lol...sorry couldnt resist eheheh

LOLOLOLOL those weren't the only issues Cheoy lee had back in the 80's. I worked on one, and every single wire running through the boat was orange. They were only numbered at the terminating ends of the wires. Can you imagine looking at a wiring chase with 100 orange wires coming out of it and trying to determine which one you were looking for.....LOLOLOLOLOL

yikes! heheeh at least they were labeled!!! i've seen worse ehehhe but seriously, what about now adays? are they better? if so since when? 80's bad? 90's bad? 2000 good? where does one draw the line?

Cheoy Lee was spoken of quite highly in the upper posts of this thread, but no real evidence in the forum search to back it up........? as for pricing i have seen pricing in other yards in taiwan with better reputation which is on par or higher than cheoy lee's...

On point for trawler designs -

My 9 year old DeFever is hull#168 of the same series. The yard is Pocta in China. Either though luck or skill, the boat came out with no more fragility or build issues to date than trawlers built in the US. According to the very well regarded yard where much of my servicing is done, the boat's material issues to date are not China related. Most problems have been with US or European made electronics and engines.

I am curious as to a US built FRP trawler builder today who is in good financial shape whose vessel holds its retail value and has a following, say in the 50 -60' range. By far the best built power boat I have seen recently is the Dashew FPB series, albeit Al construction. Last but not least, what I have heard from owners is that Nordhavns made in China have great corporate support to fix latent issues.

Greetings,
I don't have experience with yacht building in the PRC but over the last 3 years I have surveyed dozens of large commercial vessels built in China. The quality compared to the Korean and Japanese yards is atrocious and a couple of steps below the eastern European yards. Numerous large commercial operators jumped on the Chinese wagon over the last ten years because they are cheap. The quality operators are, and have been, unloading the tonnage at losses because it is killing them to keep them classed and operating at an expected industry standard. Some are better than others but none that I have seen can compete on anything but price. You get what you pay for and in the commercial arena cheap up front can, and probably, will kill you in the long run.
Duke

Maybe a somewhat analogous story? I have been looking at large screen TV's lately, either LCD or LED models for a house in Thailand and a place here in the USA What I am finding when I go researching on the internet is many problems with those units that are built in China (even though they may have a USA name such as Westinghouse).

What prompted me to look into this is number of such units being sold as 'refurbished' units. Why such a large number of TV's being sold out as 'refurbished' ? And what excactly does this 'refurbished' consist of? I seem to be finding a large number of folks that are experiencing failures with their power....power board failures is what I suspect.

....oops ran out of time right now, will continue later

Samsung is the ONLY way to go for LED or LCD.....made in Mexico lol.....but they are leading the pack.

Okay see if I can finish this up real quick. Here is a quote I just found an Amazon reviews of Westinghouse TV's
"The sound was never great, but the picture was good. After 6 months, all of a sudden, there is green pixel artifacts all over the screen whenever a black or a dark color is supposed to be on the screen. After checking my various television/cable/game console connections, I noticed that the problem was still there. I looked into it, and it appears that a common feature of all Westinghouse LCDs is defective YSUS boards. I was reading up on consumer complaints, and it seems most of Westinghouse's products crap out after a year (just out of warranty). In cases such as mine, customer service has been of little help, and there are cases of people never receiving their TVs once they've sent their TVs in for repair (while under warranty). If I had known of Westinghouse's shoddy work prior to buying this piece of crap TV, I would have bought either a Sony, Samsung, or an Insignia (Best Buy) brand TV. The ****** part is that according to Westinghouse's own warranty policy, the consumer is responsible for all shipping costs to have this TV repaired. It did not say if there was a charge to repair the device under warranty, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. In the end, it might be cheaper for me to just buy a new TV rather than getting this one fixed."
Amazon Reviews

If you looked up a number of other reviews you would find many very similar. What caught my attention was this 'power board' reference. I had (still have) a very nice Xerox computer monitor Its a nice clean design with good color, and clarity, and even a glass protective cover screen:
Xerox XG-91D
BUT it failed after a very short time in use. I decided to try and find out what the problem might be....I mean Xerox has a very reputable name, and this was their new entry into monitors of their own

Problem wad they were having another company build them in China, and that manufacturer got a whole lot of 'faulty capacitors' supplied to it. I mean a capacitor is a pretty simple and cheap product in itself. Why would you resort to an even cheaper one that turns out to be faulty .
FixYa Discussions

Long story short. I posted some messages on this Fixya site and eventually found the problem to be these faulty capacitors on the power boaYds. And I even found an outfit down in Ft Lauderdale that would fix the faulty boards if you took them out and sent them to them. I did that and now 3 of those monitors that I eventually bought work just find.

BUT Xerox never did come right out front and admit the problem, nor did they take all the product off the market and trash it.

Too me the problems that these Westinghouse TVs (and some other off brands) are having sound like a similar electronic component on their power boards. In the old days a good brand manufacturer would NOT continue to market a faulty product. Nowadays there seems to be new rules....lets sell it as 'refurbished', while reducing the warranty period from one-year to 90-days, and then don't worry about the consumer after that...most likely they will get total frustrated and go bye something else rather than ship the whole TV back across the country.

I guess I will stick with the more quality products coming out of Japan and Korea,....screw the Chinese products till they get their act straightened out.

Not to run off on too much of a tangent, but the "bad electrolytic capacitor" problem affected almost every electronic manufacturer.... regardless of country of origin. It financially knocked Dell to its knees, and put a hole in the pockets of the other PC manufacturers as well. If you have a piece of electronic equipment that is about 5 years old.. and it fails.... 9 out of 10 times it is due to one of these bad caps.

Monitor Repair : Corporate Computer

...another monitor problem involving faulty capacitors

Wonder why I don't see so many of these problems with electronics manufactured in Korea and Japan? or maybe I'm just unaware of these numerous other problems?...I will admit I am NOT an electronics person....electrically challenged

Why are you asking this? Are you Greek or Chinese?

Sorry, misunderstood your initial question. I wouldn't trust a Chinese yard to carve out an outrigger canoe. The PRC has a horrible history of manufacturing. Let's not even mention their blatant outright piracy and intellectual theft of everything around the globe, but in particular the US and western Europe.

The world would be better off if the "Great wall" would permanently surround their great country.