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Maintenance cost vs length

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by ikold, Sep 3, 2012.

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  1. ikold

    ikold New Member

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    Am in the market to purchase a boat in the 80ft range for live aboard mainly in the Caribbean for the next 3 years. Have been looking mostly at late 80's through mid 90's vintage Hatteras, Burger, and Browards almost all have the DD 12v92's or 71's a few with the 16v92's.
    Have also seen a few larger Browards and Burgers 98' to 106' that were not much more then what folks were asking for 75 and 80ft Hatteras's.

    How much more maintenance cost is there in a boat thats 15' longer in length. From the looks of it most of the systems were exactly the same. I would imagine there are more A/C compressors, and the engines were a bit bigger 16v92 vs 12v92 for example. Am I wrong in thinking that there additional maintenance cost would be minimal? There must be a reason these larger older boats are languishing and selling for such attractive prices.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    An Aluminum yacht such as a Burger or Broward will have considerably higher maintanence costs versus a fiberglass Hatteras that's 15' shorter, if you want to properly maintain the yacht. 16v92's also have considerably higher repair costs such as injectors, major overhauls, turbo's etc. (not necessarily higher maintanence costs) over a 12v71. Also 8 out of 10 of the older Browards in that size range that I've come across have $100,000's of neglected repairs that need to be done in order to have the vessel seaworthy. It seems a much higher percentage have been neglected versus the slightly smaller Hatteras' in the size range you're looking at. The Burger's OTO seem to have a higher percentage that are still well taken care of.
  3. ikold

    ikold New Member

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    Given what I've looked at, your assessment is spot-on.
    I've found it quite surprising that for nearly the same price as a 75 Hatteras you can get a 94' Broward (and possibly a Burger too). What are some particular things I should look for when viewing these boats?


    Couple of engine questions:

    * The DD 12v92 or 72 series require overhauls every 2500-3000 hours.

    * Does the cat 3412 (which is rare to find) have a substantially longer overhaul interval.

    * How many hours does a generator on avg before needing overhaul

    * How do you assess the life left in a watermaker


    With an aluminum hull is it simply a matter of staying on top of the blistering (grinding, repainting) or is it substantially more involved then that.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    12v71's usually go 5000-6000 hours between overhauls. 12v92's I've seen a lot of them needing overhaul at 1000 hours in a sportfish and have seen them go as long as 5000 hours (which I consider a miracle considering it was an overpropped 63' Ocean SF that towed a 35' Marlago behind it routinely), but would say 2-2500 hours in a motoryacht.

    The CAT 3412 is a great motor and will go usually a minimum of 5,000 hours and as much as 10,000 hours between overhauls. I would also say it's better technology (no oil leaks, 4 stroke) and monitoring systems (unless you're comparing to a DDEC) than the Detroits.

    Generators Westerbekes/older Onans will usually go 2500 hours before rebuilding the electrical end sometimes as much as 5,000 hours, the engines 5,000 hours sometimes 10,000. A northern lights more like 20,000 hours before rebuilding.

    Watermaker: that's a tough one, depending on maintanence. Membranes usually go 2500 hours if taken care of. However, if they dry out, aren't pickled, or aren't flushed and dry out they could be shot at 100 hours. The high pressure pumps usually last a good while, the low pressure pumps depending on make go a few years or so but they're relatively cheap oberdorfer types.

    Mainly with Aluminum it's staying on top of blistering, but many would repaint every 5 years, otherwise you end up with a bunch of obvious patches that don't match. You also have to keep up with electrolysis on the hull, and get into replacing plates as necessary. You also have to be extremely careful not to drop any tools into the hull or pennies or other types of metal.
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Capt J have you some good information. I will just add that there a number of general factors that will drastically affect maintenance costs starting with origin built quality and how the boat was maintained.

    Beyond that, within 10 to 15' costs will not always go up by much. Sure, you may have slightly bigger engines and maybe an extra AC system but this will have a lot less impact on costs than a boat built to lower standards

    I m a big fan of 3412s... On the boat i run We have 1400hp 3412Es (2002) with 3600 hours and maintenance has been limited to regular Cat services. The last one at 3000hrs was about $5k. For both...

    Beyond that, an important factor is how you do the routine maintenance on the boat. If you have a full time captain your costs will be a lot smaller than if you re paying $100 an hr yard labor...
  6. C4ENG

    C4ENG Senior Member

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    Besides the type of equipment to be serviced, it is very wise to consider how the equipment is installed and laid out. If there is very tight working room and hard access to equipment, it will take longer to preform the maintenance and repairs. Larger ER's with good access can allow jobs to get done much faster which saves money$ when the work is being billed by time like most yards and contractors do.
  7. sunchaserv

    sunchaserv Member

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    Don't forget interior and exterior looks. The amount of varnish, new canvas and "soft" windows, wax, paint, wash time, carpets, cleaning etc all increase greatly as size and volume increase. My normal cosmetic costs approach normal systems costs on a yearly basis.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Very true... Although a little bit of trim will not break the bank.

    Good point about soft goods especially enclosures. An enclosed FB/skylounge requires a lot less cleaning and upkeep.

    Then again, shopping around can keep costs under controls, and sadly many owners or worst, captains,just accept the first estimate they get. We recently renewed most soft goods on the boat I run inclu new tubes for the 14' RIB,all new RIB cushions and a 10 person aft deck u shape lounge. I had estimates totalling ranging from $4800 to $15000... Same materials. Guess which ones I picked!
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    One thing to keep in mind is that maintaining an aluminum yacht is going to be more costly than maintaining a fiberglass yacht, all other things being equal.

    I've always found that many times, you get exactly what you pay for when it comes to repairing things, having canvas and cushions done. I've found the people that give the cheapest estimate *usually* use sub standard materials and workmanship.
  10. Caltexflanc

    Caltexflanc Senior Member

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    The biggest variable by a factor of several times for boats this size and vintage is what the prior owners did or did not do to them. To me it introduces such a wide range of results as to make generalizations almost meaningless. A beautifully maintained and properly upgraded aluminum boat with Detroits will be much less needy than a glass boat with Cats that has been ignored and/or abused (abused such as "upgrades" of horrible quality). I suppose if you are merely looking for a floating condo to live on at the dock, the equation tightens a bit, but I think we are all responding based on the assumption you want to go to sea in the thing.
  11. ikold

    ikold New Member

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    Yes we will go to "sea in the thing". In fact we intend to be at sea for the winter.

    Generally speaking we are ignoring all boats which show visible signs of neglect and the survey should (hopefully) identify any hidden neglect.

    Assuming a well taken care of boat with 12v71's (or 92's) with say 2k on motors and 5k on gens in the 74-80ft range and "updated" in say the 2004-2006 period what is a good price. Anyone with knowledge please chime in or PM me. It has been difficult to determine what a boats true market value is. The bid/ask / sale price seems to be quite wide.

    As an example of what I've been looking at, what would you say a great and a fair price for this Hatteras would be.

    http://www.**************/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1397&url=
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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