Which yacht should I buy?

As a financial guy you should understand ROI and DCCF. On that basis few vessels carry the resale value of a Fleming assuming you keep the boat in good shape.

Might we infer a Fleming to be an excellent choice for uber-saline, shallow bodies of inland water??

The bigger issue I see with this question and throughout web sites like this is that the Marine Industry has developed no way of rating boats. The Car mags are not afraid too and neither is Consumer Reports but heaven forbid if a boating magazine would develop and publish some kind of well thought out and equitable grading system. The advertisers would cry foul and pull the money plug, leaving the general boating public in the same limbo they are today.

I have given my opinions on boats as well as others and they are all certainly biased to the experience I have had while operating them. Too many people put up comments without ever running the boats in question and there is way too much B.S. floating in the Blog world. Every typical blog is infused with some of those who wish to express their opinion, no matter how wrong it may be....

I have met people who have cruised most of the Pacific Coast in a 31' Bayliner, crossed oceans in Catalina's, weathered near hurricanes in Sea Rays, and most peoples opinions' here are low on these brands. I will tell you that in most cases the limiting factor in seamanship is the OWNER/OPERATOR! Your boat is only as good as your skills (a Captain if you have to hire one) and the depth of your pocketbook.

A 72' Hatteras is no better than a 72' Nordlund, but that is a distinction that only a few would be willing to make, as there is so much regional bias here, unintentional or otherwise.

What site/service would have the courage to develop a rating system that would expand on the good as well as the not so good qualities of new boats, or is this Industry going to remain immune to that type of scrutiny?

I think it can be done tastefully and remain positive, but there would definitely be a hierarchy created through a scoring system - any takers

I think the reason you don´t see this other than on small production boats, is that not two boats are the same. The buyers are putting personal ideas into each boat, it can be bigger or smaller engines, all sorts of equipment and personal interior solutions and colors that makes their boat unique.

On top of all the changes, they want the boat as fast as possible so I think it is a miracle that the poor builders get their boats too work at all...

So far there has been a lot of very good feedback here. Don't take it personally if you are questioned as a new member, this forum has repeatedly seen people posing as inquisitive potential owners who actually have an agenda.... the moderators do a good job of keeping this place sane by being watchdogs.

With that said, in your original post you have defined several "wants"....

Let's start with the "want" of a new boat as opposed to used. 1 to 2 million isn't going to get you much. Especially if you add in the "want" of a jacuzzi.

It would be helpful for the people here who would like to share their opinions with you, if you could elaborate a bit more on how you see using the boat. You mention week long trips, but the question is, where?
Family trips? How big is your family? Will your kids want to bring friends? What kind of activities and lifestyle do you enjoy?

You mention a desire for a trideck or flybridge yacht. Again, these are bigger and more expensive. But, tridecks and flybridges give you a lot of room, and enjoyable room at that.

Hiring crew brings it's own issues. How involved do you want to be in the minutiae of maintenance and operation? Hiring help here and there for cleaning is less expensive, but you will have to devote more time and energy to managing that part of it.

So ... defining your wants, needs, and desires will go a long way towards narrowing down the "design spiral" to get you to your goal of having a boat and using it.

+1 CaptPKilbride's astute observations.

And since you mention never going on the yachts you have owned I have to ask have you been on any yachts in the size ranges you are considering?

Since you are in Fort Lauderdale that would be very easy to do without having to invest too much time, effort and energy and would go a long way in helping you and us begin to narrow down the possitilities.

Once you go on a few boats of different sizes and styles you will very quickly realize what "feels right" to you.

So much revolves around the size of the boat that fits your needs IMHO figuring that out is really the next step in your quest of "narrowing down the design spiral"!

Have you ever been on a 72' Hatteras? The layout is extremely well thought out and about perfect for a yacht that size, and the living area and interior volume is amazingly well engineered and downright HUGE for a 72'. I step foot on a lot of yachts, I mean a lot, and in that size range the Hatteras takes the cake by far while all of the other builders are still playing with the batter or making cupcakes.

CaptJ - I like your passion about boats and the Marine Industry overall, but come on, "all of the other builders are still playing with the batter or making cupcakes."??? I am going to have to call serious B.S. here. You obviuosly have a strong opinion as well as myself but it appears you can not disconnect yourself from your hired duties as occasional Captain for this company, as you consider everything they build must be the standard for other builders - I don't think so.

I know plenty of guys at Hatteras (great people) and throughout the Industry as well as builders on both Coasts and have worked directly for manufacturer's on both Coasts so I feel that I have a pretty broad perspective.

Let's face it, Hatteras has been in an uphill battle in the SF market in the past decade as Viking has cleaned their clock (and all other production SF builders) in sales and tournament wins. How many 72 MY's have been delivered since its' introduction? Triple screw??? As many Lazzarra MY's this past decade? Many boatbuilders have caught Hatteras years ago and they can deliver the whole enchilada as well. Hatteras has great customer support but so do Viking, Lazzarra and others as well so I think the main thing is customers have a pretty wide selection of good choices, including the out standing people at companies like Nordlund, Westport, etc.

They will have a serious challenge ahead of themselves breaking into the large Yacht market they had abandoned (for a multitude of reasons) profitabilty being a big one...

I like Hatteras, but I am not a Hatteras fanboy, and not partial to just Hatteras. I have been on and ran most all of the Motoryachts in that size that are out there. The 72' Hatteras is a VERY VERY large 72' and is laid out extremely well, and has a TON of room and ammenities for it's size. It really has the space and ammenities of most 90'. On this particular boat they really hit a home run. There is no motoryacht in it's size that compares with the amount of room or ammenities (28 cu ft. subzero fridge in the galley, queen size Captains bed in stern and seperate large shower/head) for example, and I've been on all of them and run just about all of them. In this size range 70-75' there is nothing similar or even close to being as volumous. The 72' MY came out in 2008 and they're about on hull #30 I would imagine right now......

As for the Sportfish, their 54' really shines and runs exceptionally great, some of the larger ones not as great. The reason Viking took the lead is because Hatteras really neglected the cockpit ammenities, tiny fish box right underneath where the fighting chair foot rest would be, no live well, very little tackle storage......whereas viking has 2 large fish boxes running fore and aft, a nice livewell, nice bait freezer etc.......

Each manufacturer really has 1 model that is exceptional and it seems the rest of the models are just ok or good. Look at the Fleming and Marlow design for example......55-65' they are a very good design....with a lot of room and features for their size range.......However, on the mid 70's and larger they have very little additional space and the height and actual design makes them small for their size and you don't gain much over the smaller ones. As for the batter comment, yeah......Go on a 68' Azimut or similar size Feretti and you can't even cook a 3 course dinner for the amount of guests it sleeps, the galleys (and other area's) are a complete joke.......The Hatteras, has the capabilities of doing a 1 month trip through the Bahamas and being self sufficient with the exception of taking on fuel, with a boatload of guests.....The Hatteras is twin engine, not triple screw. Westport doesn't even build anything under 98' and Lazzara is near bankrupt, and show me a Nordlund dealer on the east coast, or anywhere.

BTW, PACBLUE have you physically stepped foot on a 72' Hatteras MY, ever?

CaptJ - their is nothing wrong with being a Hatteras homer as your posts have been over the years. Interior volume and staterooms may be the criteria for some buyers and there are others that want a more open feel, that's why there is so much variety being built out there. The BS about a 72 being as big as a 90 is so prevalent in this Industry, just typical guido used car sales speak, it doesn't provide the total picture. Do you know if they have hit hull #30? I would be really impressed as that would average 7 delivered boats a year, and going back to 2008 Hatteras was in critical condition, fighting for its life - thank goodness they made it through. I would check with your buddies at the plant, as it is not right to throw out numbers as fact if you do not know it to be.

We all have read your enthusiasm for the 54 over the years, and we both know it took a lot of time and energy to get the product to ride the way it does now. In the meantime, their competitors took market share. Just a few fishboxes away and some cockpit changes and you are back on top? I don't buy it, there is a lot of criteria that a client evaluates vefore shelling out large dollars, and Hatteras needs to accomplish a few more things than some cockpit changes. I do think they are on the right track with the GT series, but you can toss the rest of the convertibles out the design door and try again.

I agree with your comments on the Italian Motoryachts, but that buyer is not a Hatteras buyer anyways, neither is the Fleming/Marlow/Offshore buyer either. I threw out the triple screw comment as an indication of going down the wrong design path in the larger Hatteras MY line and as another indication that no matter the reputation, all builders don't get it right all the time.

Is Lazzarra truly near bankrupt??? Do you know their accountants, the family's position and financial situation? If you don't, it is not neccessary to make comments like that. You can argure all you want but they have done a better job as a Motoryacht builder in the US over a long period of time, and will overcome this down cycle if they wish to stay in the battle as a private enterprise.

You know CaptJ, there is water in other locations in this country, and you have such an East Coast bias. Not all clients want a cookie cutter product and I offered Nordlund as an alternative. As a custom builder, you could get exactly what you want from a family that will take care of you as one of their own - how bad could that be? I am also surprised that you are not aware that Westport builds the Pacific Mariner 85 (and 65, on request only). I would certainly not hesitate to select the PM85 over the Hatteras 72 and take a cruise of a lifetime from WA to FL.

Since you asked, yes I have been on the 72, have been to the plant in New Bern, have been on most of their models in various stages of construction, have been on sea trials as well. The 72 did not wow me as much as it has you, it is a very good product, but that's OK as we all have different opinions of what we value in a boat, and afterall, that is what this thread was all about.

I am just amazed any of you are going to bat for a boat to recommend to the original poster, when the original poster has not chimed back in after asking him to better define what he really wants and needs. Just a few posts ago the original poster was vacillating between a 60 footer and a 150 footer.

Homer

Well this should be interesting once CaptJ gets back from delivering a boat to Haiti, sea trialling a Viking, taking a Westport 130 to a ship, cleaning a Cabo and taking a tour of the Hatteras factory

And that was only today while tropical storm Isaac was hitting Lauderdale,

Well "homer" captain what is your reply to Pacblue

Yes we are biased over on the east but why do so many from the west coast come here to buy boats ?

I am not a Hatteras Homer, whatever that is, but I've run 100's of Hatteras' as well as 1000's of other boats. There are a lot of Hatteras' running around when you look back over the last 30 years. I said that I would IMAGINE (guessing) they are on their 30th hull. I think hull #12 was a 2009. I have seen many different ones at boat shows and around since then. Hatteras was at 40% capacity at the lowest point and was never near bankruptcy or fighting for it's life. Brunswick has deep pockets, one of their large dealers on the other hand, that was/is a different story.

Every hull design is a compromise, we're speaking Sportfish hulls only now. The 61' Viking is what really put Viking over Hatteras and Bertram in sales (just like the 54' did for Bertram back in the day). Vikings are more stable at trolling speeds and cruise and are fast, however they suck in a head sea of any sort. Take that 61' in 3-5' seas you're slowing down from 33 knots to about 25-28 knots and we're only talking 3-5's here. Viking did a very very good job on the layout of the 61' when they introduced it, both the cockpit, interior, and looks. However, if you look at the 55' they had at the time, it was a submarine in just about any sea on the nose. Hatteras does a little too much trial and error in their hull designs on the sportfish side, and are a little too stuck in their ways in some areas when it comes to the hulls. The 54' is a great riding boat with a sea from any direction, the 60' GT rides pretty darn good too, however some of the others.....not so much.......I had an owner that had a new '06 61' Viking SF and sold it end of '06 and he bought a 54' Hatteras SF that was a few years older as a temporary boat while his new custom SF was being built. I pulled out of Government Cut with solid 6' rolling in the inlet and lit the boat up to 33 knots, his eyes got big and he goes "Aren't you going to slow down??????????". and I turned to him and said No, this isn't your Viking.......the boat just ate it up...... But honestly, my fan club goes to certain custom SF builders that do 2 boats or so a year depending on the size. If I'd recommend anything it'd be a Jim Smith in the 70'+ range and a Bayliss below that.......

Lazzara indeed is, they are only building boats that customers are ordering with down payment because their credit lines have been shut down to where they cannot build a boat on spec. They owe one large company in Fort Lauderdale over $500k for 3 years now, from what I've heard as well as many other vendors. There was a thread on them on this very own Forum that you can search for. Last I heard they have 12 employees down from over 100'. A subcontractor that does installs of products for them told me they used to have 6-8 boats at various stages everything going on, last time he was over there, a few months ago, they had 1 boat in the water they were finishing up, and one new boat they were building for someone, the guy that posts on this forum......

I was on a 118' Hatteras MY and helped unload it from a ship, that had triple 16v92's in it. Yeah, it would be better with twin engines, but I guess that's what they had at the time to achieve the speed they wanted. Other than the engine configeration, the boat was a mid 1990's and was still very modern looking inside and outside. It was a tri-deck and very spacious. It's sitting at the factory getting a refit now. I don't think the center motor was the best idea, you could leave it shut down and run off of 2 if you wanted to travel at hull speed or slow speeds though. Some buyers do crossover from Azimuts to Hatteras, or Azimut to Fleming, people get older, families get bigger or smaller, their priorities change, and their cruising styles change.

Westport does not build Pacific Mariners. The owner of Westports son, builds Pacific Mariners, and I have heard from numerous surveyors and such that the quality is not anything near a Westport. Im sure Nordlund builds a pretty good boat, I've even run one that was just under 90' and the boat got up and ran 24 knots at cruise, but how many do they build a year? They don't have a dealer network like Hatteras does. You're comparing a custom yacht to a production yacht. Not to mention they don't build anything in the size range of the 72' Hatteras. The smallest Nordlund builds is 78' and if you're comparing apples to apples you should be comparing it to a 80' Hatteras.

The 72' Hatteras for it's size is huge, you have a full beam stateroom with king size master bed, his and her heads, a large VIP with a queen, another good sized VIP that can be had with a queen or twins, and a small bunkroom, the Captains quarters has a queen size bed and nice stateroom, with a very large shower/head, you have a 6 person dinette in the pilothouse area, huge kitchen that you could do Thanksgiving dinner in with a 28 cubic foot refrig and nice island and counterspace, you also have a 8 person formal dining table in the salon, mini bar, flybridge is very spacious with another bar.....Engine room is very roomy, and the boat has a large freezer in the lazarette and lots of interior storage. The interior of the boat is VERY large compared to other 70-75' Motoryachts. Name a boat in that range that offers the same size/volume and ammenities? The Azimut 70' seajet had very spacious guest staterooms, but the crew quarters were tiny and the galley was completely tiny.......that's about the only thing in that size range motoryacht-wise that was close, or the older 76' Lazzara.......but neither of them are as spacious......Really on most 90' the only difference between that and say the 72' Hatteras is more tender storage room, a slightly longer salon which isn't anymore useful, and more crew quarters. The galley, dining area, and guest staterooms are about the same (save for possibly the 4th stateroom on some 90').

There are some Westcoast builders I do really like, but I've found that most all of them don't know how to air condition a boat to save themselves, but otherwise build some very nice yachts.

Actually, you sound really jealous. Give me a call sometime, maybe I'll take you on a field trip one day from your wooden sailboat! You can check it out first hand. I was indeed home today watching it rain. Yesterday I secured a bunch of yachts that I needed to and took today off. Never been to Haiti, and don't want to go there either.

It's all in good fun, just sharing opinions.......

There once was a day when the Pleasurecraft and Shipbuilding Industry was more West Coast balanced, but the green police has ensured that industrial access to the water will not include boatbuilders. The limited marinas and lack of an ICW have driven property costs out the roof for waterfront property and limited opportunities for those of us still keeping afloat in the industry.

If you had a simple event like a drawbridge keeping traffic waiting to let a few power and sail boats go by, I could imagine the public outrage in CA and the potential for lawsuits as well as gunshots.....

Why do you think most people aren't allowed to have guns in CA? hehehehe

HTML:

Why do you think most people aren't allowed to have guns in CA? hehehehe

I knew you would have to have the last word

Jealous

Oh come on, jealous of what, a Captain that has sailed on every boat built and can change pistons on a ship with the engine running.

What is the difference between a custom wooden sail boat and a wooden custom sports fisherman.

I was waiting for a reply from you about Pacblue calling you a "homer"

PS. When will you take me on a field trip and to where, that should be very interesting. What do you think Carl

Next time I get a call to deliver a luxury yacht to Haiti, I'll be sure to call you up and see if you want to go as my engineer! LOLOLOLOL I've never gotten a phone call for that, but hey, you never know.

Good old Hatteras owners have paid lots and lots of my bills over the years, heck I secured 2 of them yesterday along with a Davis, Neptunus, Azimut, Sunseeker, Silverton, and a Sea Ray.

I am new to yachting as well (less than 2 years). Went from no boat to now buying my second "boat". Started with a 58' westbay and now a 68' nordlund. Agree with a lot of these post. I have spent a lot of time looking at boats/yachts and been on my fair share. I would guess i upgrade another time in the next 5+ years but won’t go over much past 80' feet. I feel confident in the 58' and just getting a handle of the 68'. I have a wife and 4 kids under the age of 11. We spent a great deal of time on the boat but less than 2 weeks out and about at a time, mostly weekends and such. In the PNW, we have different issues than in the SE. However here is what i found in my very very short period.

I handle my 58' better than the 30 foot boats do with experience captains. (I still have a ton to learn and white knuckle a lot of times). This size of boat is less effected to wind than the smaller ones and dual props and bow (or bow and stern) make everything pretty easy, if you’re buying new, you can get pod engines or joystick controls making it even easier. I will say I spent 4 hours with a captain on the 58' before getting signed off on for insurance. I found a reasonable mind, a good aptitude for understanding electronics goes a long way.

Someone posted something about finding a pretty boat is easy, finding a quality boat is hard. I would go on 40 boats +++ before, have a broker rate them (A class, B Class, C Class) and start asking why on each one. New boats all look nice, a 10year old or 20 year old will tell you if they are quality. Pay attention to this. This is key. Don’t have to buy the best, but don’t buy the worse either. I won’t name them, but if you look at an older one you will know quickly.

Personally I never want to spend my vacation time with a captain and crew I don’t know if I like. So I would look for something you can handle.

Now for what I find important: I would describe myself as someone who spends a lot of time on my boat, brings a lot of friends, and spend a few weeks out of each year going somewhere longer than a weekend.

Fly Bridge (we spend a ton of time up there.) How many people can fit? What about when the weather is not the best?
Rooms: we have been out with 6-8 kids and 6-8 adults, at that point who cares you are on a boat enjoying the time, pile people on the floor. However, make sure the master bed is nice 
Salon: people do spend time here, when the weather is bad, or at night when the conversations get louder because the booze ran longer. Does it seat enough people.
Kitchen: We grill a lot more than cook in there.
Engine Room: make sure it is roomy as you are learning and you will spend a lot of time figuring stuff out down there.
Pilot House or where ever you will drive from. Make sure you can be a part of the fun when manning the wheel. You will have to captain it, don’t want everyone having fun without you.


Now all that said, my next boat will be a trawler style (nordhavn type) as I have changed what I am looking for and want to spend more and more time on the boat and venture longer and longer out. However I think I have a very reasonable boat for that now.