How Sellers Turn Off Buyers

Even the sun shines on a dogs arse every once in a while.

I will borrow this saying, I know when and who this applies to!
Thanks.

Being a Nordhavn owner who kept his boat up to standard and up, I lately listed my N47 on Nordhavn FSBO. Why FSBO? To avoid the brokers. Why avoid brokers? They are, but for a few, worthless but not shy to ask 10% commission for their( invaluable?) work. Which is by the way to showcase your well kept boat and use it to sell their others at a lower price.

Why have I choose to list with FSBO? It is a new web site that works, the first boat listed was sold and delivered to his new owner within 9 weeks. Having been a close witness I can say it works. Happy seller and happy buyer.

FSBO is not for anyone. Not for someone who need a third party to nix everything up, not for someone who dosen't know what he or she wants. And especially not for someone who's looking for spending more money than necessary.

In these days, Internet is a wonderful tool. We are using Internet to communicate at this moment. There are more boats for sale there than what one can find on Yachtworld and there are serious sellers out there waiting for real buyers.

It's true we are no longer in 2008-2009, the bottom of the market. What is for sale now are usually boats well kept and at a right price, if you take the (in) famous 10%.

It's a no brainer...honest seller and honest buyer should end up with the right deal for both parties.

Ok you are not convinced, let say on a 850,000.00$ listing, there is 85,000.00$ commission and what does a buyer get for that money?

Can't you find a good pre survey mechanical inspector, Steve d'Antonio (I am not a fan but he is well known) or someone of his caliber? Let's say this inspector will cost you 5,000.00$. It is a lot less thank 85,000.00$ and a serious seller should not see any problem in having a pre survey inspection.

Do as you please but the bottom line is it is your money and you and only you how you want to spend it.

Lately it's not just maintenance, they don't want to clean them either. I told someone this week that I would not list their boat until it was cleaned. I would hate to see how these people keep their houses.

My experiences during the past 6 months of intensive newer boat shopping show that the owners are holding out for unrealistically high prices given the ongoing economic malaise. Bottom line, either the boat is seriously for sale or it isn't. This testing the market nonsense is a waste of everyone's time.

In the market niche I am pursuing, I have found brokers to be OK and wanting to make deals happen, but dreaming owners in 3 cases have killed the deal, with their vessels remaining unsold. Possibly the owners are living in denial since their new boat purchase was in reality buying a dream and not a rock solid investment as they'd convinced themselves into.

FSBO situations scare me unless I am close enough to drive there or I have some good reliable inside information on the vessel. The only thing worse than an unsrupulous broker is a shady or uncaring owner.

Uncaring or shady owners may and do exist that is why I suggested a pre survey mechanical inspection. I don't know a lot of owners who would venture out as a lot of us do, on not well maintained and safe boat.
If for you all sellers are dreaming in full color according to their asking price, some of us know the real value of a good, sturdy and seaworthy vessel and what we are asking is not inflated by 10%.
Do as you wish but for myself I would rather deal directly with the buyer than dealing with a third party. It's what I am doing now in order to buy the right vehicule for our next adventures.

Sissi, value to the owner and final price paid by the buyer are two different things. It seems to me the market is established by buyers not sellers. Your vessel looks well priced for the saturated N47 market. The FSBO pictures on my Windows 7 are a bit too blurry.

For Nordhavns (about 10) I have looked at and if the spec sheets are enticing, my long distance questions have been simple including off teh wall things like - is/was it a liveaboard, is the vessel now "empty" and ready for showing, was the vessel smoked in, what year were the plotter/radar instruments installed, how old and how much fuel is in the tanks and do you own a dog? Stupid questions to many but relevant to me with about 50% of the vessels "washing out."

You are right about the internet providing all sorts of help. I was talking with one broker and idly asked if the selling owners liked dogs. "Yes, but not on the boat." Their website showed a lab on the nice leather settee having a snooze and posts about taking their dogs to muddy PNW shores.

I didn't go back to look at the original list of turn offs but the other thing to consider when looking at boats long distance is that pictures lie. First, you need to be sure the pictures are current and not from 10 years ago. Second, many flaws do not show up in pictures taken from 10 or more feet away.

There is no substitute for putting eyes on the boat. Either you own or someone independent of the transaction.

Lastly, not all brokers misrepresent the vessel and many of us will adjust the commission based on effort and in the interest of getting the deal done. However, we all deal with sellers who are unrealistic in their expectations and buyers who think everyone is desperate.

so...I guess you are a non smoker, do not have a dog and ...do not liveaboard???

you made me laugh...as those are questions we did not even think of asking when we bought our boat!

we had studied the market, seen many boats at boatshows etc and knew what we wanted: a sturdy boat in fair condition ...and a nordhavn 47 for the full height engine room and safe portuguese bridge (which the N 43 does not have) and all the other great features...
we had made an offer on a 47 out west...but 2 brokers involved...complicted
when a 47 became available on the east coast, we went to see it and put in an offer within a couple of hours...survey and we sailed away on her 3 weeks later...

if you expect a boat to be emty...sitting on a broker's dock....you might just miss out on a much better boat!

thanks for your response and have a great day...and happy hunting

Sissi

Having walked from a boat I liked a great deal because the broker was rude, insulting and most of the undesirable things listed in this thread I have wondered if I should have written to the owner (who was present at the showing and did all the helpful work) and tell him he should fire his broker and list the reasons. The boat has been on the market a long time even though it is a very desirable boat. How will the seller ever know his broker is losing him sales unless he is told by someone like me?
Should I inform the seller? If you were the seller would you want to know?

Viking,
Yes, send him a letter, If I were the owner, I'd want to know and I would appreciate notifications.

yes! tell the seller! absolutely! by e mail, phone or letter, but let him know!

According to ************** there are currently 2,423 yachts for sale in the US between 40 to 80 feet and priced $500K to $1M. According to Yacht Council 13 - YES 13- of any length sold in this price range in January. Page 72 of May's PMY magazine shows a few details.

It could be argued that the used boat market is dead for all but the most pristine, name popular and priced right vessels. Even at that a real risk remains for the unwary buyer who believes all the boat manufacturers hoopla and may want to flip his vessel in a few years.

During the past 6 months only 1 of 15 vessels I seriously looked at has sold. Not comforting for when the inevitable resale time arrives. From my perspective, the market is easily 20 to 25% over priced for the more popular 4 to 6 year old vessels and much more for the less popular.

I should add that although I had a dealing with a broker who should be selling used mobile homes and not yachts I am also now working with a broker who knows his boats, owns one in fact, and does all he can to be helpful, informative and is prompt in his communication. My wife and I are flying up the coast next week to look at two of his listings and are doing so knowing I have been told the truth about the boats. He earns his commission. He is... REMOVED! Use the PM system. He is a model for a good yacht broker. Sadly, he is in the minority in the brokerage business.

Hi!
Well...I am only following the Nordhavn boats sold...and there have been several sold in the past 1 or 2 months: one 50 , four 47 , plus one 47 pending,a couple of 46..., a 43 in palm beach ...

on yachtworld there is left : one at 725 in mexico(03), one in chicago (02)at 795, two in RI at 795 and 895, two on the west coast (08) 875 and 995k, and one in Florida at 795 plus ours, the rest sold lately or is pending...

the market has bottomed out a while back it seems and there are buyers for nordhavn's , especially since there have been very few small ones built since 08... and a new 47 for ex. costs around 1.5 million

and sorry...but you talk of "flipping " a vessel after a few years? It is not "flipping" after 3 or 5 years which is apparently the average time a buyer of a smaller nordhavn (and I imagine the same is true for other boat brands in the 600-900k bracket) keeps his boat, if you consider their age bracket - after retirement- it seems logical as health and family issues can pop up...

by the way the 46 which is an excellent model and has less vintage than a fly 40,43 or 47 has been build for a much longer time...there is a 1989 one for sale at 349k in florida.

which brands are you following? kadey-Krogen, Selene, Fleming, ocean alexander?

Have a great day!
sissi

I was only indicating the Nordhavn 47's for sale on yachtworld

Sissi - I PMed you

sold

I would be careful going by those figures alone, one web site lists 56 boats sold in January 2012 in the size and price range that you are referring too plus I know that in that list the worlds largest brokerage only lists 3 boats as being sold yet they closed on 31 boats in that month and the largest repo company has no sales listed at all and they have been selling boats.

Call up the surveyors who have been in business a long time and ask them if they are slow and you will get a much better idea of which way the market is going.

If brokers are so bad why are most boats still sold thru' them, it is a bit like real estate, would the majority of buyers buy a home without a realtor.

Trying to go cheap never works, find yourself a good experienced broker, show some loyalty to him or her and they will come thru' for you but bounce around from one to the other and do not expect good service. You may be surprised to find that they also have some "pocket" listings that they do advertise and may represent a good deal to their good clients.

No I am not a broker but I have been dealing with them for 23 years and have seen my share of shady ones but they usually do not last or are well known so spend some time and effort to find a good one for the type of boat you are thinking of buying.

The internet has changed a lot of things.
You compare with real estate...well ...direct sales by the owner to buyers is increasing a lot every year , apparently 40% of the sales...in montreal.

but may be not in the usa ...yet...
on the other hand, buying a condo in a city or market a buyer has been researching and knows well ...is a lot easier than buying a boat ...I will grant you that!
Also in real estate commissions are not 10% but 5 or 6 , and 3 or 4 on revenue property and they are often negotiated down.

I see a lot of listings for boats by the owner in Europe, or the other day ...a nordic tug was offered by a broker in England and I went on the site : the fixed commission is 2% (Why boats in hampshire)

You will agree that 10% on a 850k boat for ex.is a lot and too much? 85k especially when it sells to the first or second visitor?

Now...for someone who has never had a boat...a good experienced broker might be the way to go!

yet ...once you have bought 3 or 4 boats and know the brand you want well...a good experienced surveyer is what you need!