Criminalization of seafarers; yacht owners and guests

It is a hot topic, but not a new one I think.

Negligence: Conduct that falls below the standards of behavior established by law for the protection of others against unreasonable risk of harm. If your negligence causes harm then criminal penalties may follow.

Hi,

The USCG have practised this technique for more than 20 yrs from my own experience so it ain't nothing new.

Like the war on drugs started in the 80's, then it has been the war on terrorism, who knows what will be next but if you get caught in the cross fire you are going to have problems. I can't imagine any one dealing in the industry who has not been inconvenienced some how by these sort of political issues. I look at them as just facts of life.

I think you guys may have missed Marmots point.

Keeping all parties together as a boat is searched or checked is done for everyone's protection. Nobody is held hostage. I'd hate to come walking out of an engine room with a wrench in my hand as a young, heavily armed coastie goes to open the door from the other side.

Hi,

Ed you might want to experience being boarded by USCG in non US Waters and made to sit on front of boat in sun for several hours while they destroyed insides looking for drugs, when none found the smartass pimply faced dick in charge simply said "if ya boss don't like it he can sue the government"

IMHO, in the very (almost Biblical) beginning, we had yacht owners who could afford to buy and maintain their yachts, mainly berthed close to their favourite cruising areas (but not always so) and relying almost 100% on their "skippers" for management of all maintenance costs etc. These ancient yacht owners would never have envisaged, nor found acceptable that complete strangers might one day sleep in their beds, especially in their "master cabins". In most cases, and despite their best efforts, yacht charter brokers today have yet to convince many of these yacht owners otherwise.

Undoubtedly, the newer rich who today buy huge yachts have no idea. They're inevitably advised and guided by the industry and infrastructure. What today's yacht brokers say has indeed become the light, compared to all the darkness that "might" ensue otherwise.

Personally speaking, I'd prefer the devil I know than the "proverbial angel" I don't know. I don't know whether or not the US$8,000-15,000 per month charged for "assistance" offered by the usual management agencies really does help the crew in purchasing supplies and keeping the boat running more efficiently.

Once upon a time, the seasonal chief steward on a 40m superyacht in the mid 80s said "enough". Having seen how the deck crew on the same yacht basically had a much easier time (though a few members of the deck-crew did help out on occassions). He could not really change anything as it turned out, but the "skipper" nevertheless helped him in finding a new position as deck-hand on another yacht.

It might be about time that we separated "commercial and charter yachts" from wholly and solely privately-operated yachts. "We don't need your management expertise - we already have an experienced Captain and Chief Engineer aboard, who together represent 10 times the experience of the very kind lady you've assigned to our account". All we require from you are the basics: to manage crew salary payments etc. (we employ various nationalities including Canadian, UK, French, Australian, Filipino etc.); ensure that our suppliers get paid on time; when it comes to Class rules refits, we'll contact you, OK?!

Once upon a time, the crew of a Greek-Cypriot-owned 40m yacht based in the south of France endured a 2-3 month summer season with the owner / family and guests between June and August. They were well-paid (though we're talking about the days when the salaries were wired into your offshore bank account, no social security charges etc. were deducted or paid by the employer or employee - everyone lived in more or less blissfull ignorance). The rest of the year (ie. 9 months), they were able to more or less live a normal life, commuting down to the yacht each day for maintenance etc. You might well ask, what ever became of the original crew from the mid '80s? Well, the original and long-term skipper eventually found himself confronted by the French FISC who demanded huge sums related to investments made by the yacht owner and himself (the skipper had apparently made several enemies who alerted the FISC). The Singaporean mate is now Captain of a Saudi-owned 60m+ yacht. The French bosco is today still washing much smaller boats. The chief steward of the day is currently writing...

No, I don't like yacht brokers especially. I don't like how they charge such exorbitant fees for managing a yacht, let alone what they charge as sales commission when and if they eventually do sell a yacht. I don't like the way they do business perse. I was once (fortunate?) enough to be asked to translate a document by a Chief engineer who was aboard a yacht for sale and had received an offer by the broker. The very 1st time I became aware that yacht brokers in south of France do (did) commission almost everyone, including existing Captain / Engineer and incoming Captain / Engineer. That literally blew my mind. Of course, that was in the bad (good) ole days. There are at least 2x 50m+ yachts which were bought as a result of my direct relations with the prospective purchaser in the past 20 years. At the time, I had no idea of the sums (commissions) involved, I was merely happy to have been of service to a good customer. I'm angry now of course, but it's far too late. Andreas Liveras was assasinated in Bombay in 2008 - M/Y ALTAIR was a good buy (later resold at a good profit), I did indeed supply much of the materials required to transform the bare steel decks of this former pilot vessel
into the motor yacht "with teak decking" which would later receive much yachting press acclaim.

Whatever, today's Liveras Yachts is a very small shadow of what it once was. When I had the pleasure of working with Andreas Liveras in the early days on an almost daily basis between 1997 and 2005, he was "a hand's on manager", he checked all the delivery notes, he went through all the invoices line by line, before signing the cheque. What went on afterwards, with his employment of (especially eastern Europeans) at the Monaco head-office, I don't wish to enlarge on. I went from being a "100% trusted" supplier to becoming suddenly an outcast, all because of one lady apparently.

So, don't trust the ladies...

I'll pass thank you, although I've experienced similar on land. Sounds like someone ticked someone off or forgot to grease the wheels. The basic procedure is still correct though and better than getting accidentally shot. The last part might call for a little on-shore lesson in manners however. I spent many years locating people who don't want to be found. It's a useful skill for situations like that.

What? boarding a yacht in non US waters? Correct? Do I have to be happy not to get accidentally shot?

We used to deliver brand new cats from France to Annapolis anytime of the year. The objective was to keep the boat in 'as new' condition. We could deal with weather and protect the interior from wear but those pigs were the real concern. I have been boarded on a 44' yacht by 12 heavily armed USCG nearly 100 nm outside of US waters.

Forgive my ignorance but how does the USCG have the right to board you 100 nm outside of US waters? I know they can because 'they got the guns' but how does that work legally?

Sean

Hi,

Would you care to elaborate on where those wheels should be greased?

The Owner of that boat was a European who is not famous or well known so it would be handy to know whose palms need greasing.

You can PM me the details if you don't want to post it in the open.

Hi,

Good question, I guess it is a hormonal thing that does it for most, trying to get recourse for a million dollars worth of damage from the federal govt proved to be a very long expensive and largely unsuccessful battle for that Owner who just gave up.

I guess in a similar way as they now board and destroy suspected pirate skiffs in the Indian Ocean. That's all happening in International waters.
It would be great when we could get informed by other sources than the established media because I am inclined to believe that justice is perverted there too. Innocent untill proven guilty means that you can't incarcerate and destroy based on suspicion.
I bet there are some decent fishermen out there that feel even more raped than I felt at the time. But obviously that would never reach our news channels.

Sorry for contributing to thread creep but ...

"... how does the USCG have the right to board you 100 nm outside of US waters?"

That is a question they don't necessarily want to think about much. Unfortunately, because the "war on drugs" sounds like such wonderful war, many nations have given the USCG permission to violate their citizens and vessels anyplace on the planet without having to go through the formalities of asking flag state permission for each event or to even have the degree of "reasonable suspicion" required by the men in black who stomp around on the dirt.

Besides, who minds tossing their civil rights (and most of their legal ones) over the side "if they have nothing to worry about?" George Orwell would be amazed at how mild his concerns turned out to be.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA329162

The concept of "criminalization of seafarers" is separate from my (missed) point about recruiting and retaining competent seafarers.

The threat of being jailed for an accident, a legitimate accident having nothing to do with competence or performance, is serious threat to freedom that is virtually unique to the maritime industry. There have been several instances where airline pilots have been jailed but those incidents are so rare as to be dismissed as a local reaction. Seafarers on the other hand are often jailed for doing the right thing at the right time but in the wrong place.

The action of the jackboots during a boarding is not what I was talking about. That behavior unfortunately is just the new world order and probably will be until the US is too broke to continue its worldwide police fantasy. The deeper and more chilling aspect of criminalization is that seafarers cannot leave the ship or are severely restricted in their ability to participate in the type of activities the rest of us consider a natural and normal part of our lives, just because they arrived on a ship. Seafarers don't get the same reception as an airline crew.