Largest yacht for experienced owner/operator?

It is truely amazing how many times this same question has come up on YF in one form or another. A 65' yacht is the same size as a tractor trailer truck, but has two motors and an electrical generating plant to maintain, the houshold appliances of a very nice house, a plumbing system that would boggle the mind of many a residential plumbers, an electrical system like no house, the electronics of a commercial aircraft and steers like a tank. It "parks" (docks) in spaces smaller than most tractor trailers park in, is effected by wind, current and draft (both below and above), and has to be tied up to keep it from moving in 4 different directions, where as with a truck you just set the brake. Any all-in-one tractor-trailer drivers/airline pilots/electronic techs/electricians/plumbers out there? On the water we call them captains and engineers. A 65' yacht is a complicated piece of equipment, and they seldom break down in a convenient location.

comparing a boat to a tractor trailer... that's a new one!

It really depends on the owner's abilities, comfort level and how the boat will be used. ASSuming that all owner/operators have the same skills (or lack of) makes very little sense. I've seen people unable to safely handle a 40 footer after years and years of practice... I also know many owners of 50 to 70' boats who are perfectly capable of running their own boat without any professional help. I have seen owners uncapable of the most simple troubleshooting and others who do most of the maintenance themselves. Thousands of couples have done the great loop in 50 or 60 footers without incident.

A 50 or 70 footer will have similar systems: two engines, running gear, steering, elctronics, one or two generator, electrical system with chargers and inverter, batteries, plumbing, dinghy davit, winldlass, etc... If anything the larger boat will have redundant systems the smaller one may not have like two gennies, two water pumps, and more making it more reliable and allowing the owner to finish a trip or at least make it to a place where repairs can be made.

Generally speaking i also think that pilots make better owners/operators since they already had to go thru the "it's not parked on land" learning curve and are also pretty good at navigation.

Maybe it's because I've always been a boat owner that i find this familiar chorus about needing professional help over XX feet a little over the top.

it's not black or white but shades of grey.

Everything in life is a shade of gray and pilots deal with drift and navigation. So yes that is a step in the right direction. But this case is coming from a 42' gofast and many of the others come from driving nothing more complex than a Lexus. Big learning curve from either when dealing with "maybe the new lmy 64 or lsx 78". Too often I hear the 'I can afford it therefore I can run it' thought process. Then the boat sits at the dock when they find out that a big boat is a lot like work and responsibility, the operating expenses can be huge, and it can be quite daunting as you approach other multi-million dollar toys with 50 or 80 tons if you don't do it routinely. There is a misconception that having a crewmember invades on privacy, when in fact it more often than not enhances the enjoyment. Any crewmember worth his salt knows when to be visable and when not; what to hear and what not; what to see and what not. He's there to enhance your enjoyment, keep you and your family safe and take the stress out of it. So can a 70' yacht be single-handed? Of course. Is it wise or fun? Generally not, and especially without the proper experience.

In your original post you mentioned running single handed or with a small family.

I believe both those boats could be handled by an experienced small family.

The 64 might be run safely with an experienced single person (if everything goes well at all times) the 78 I don't feel can be operated safely single handed, even with aft deck controls. Except on rare occasions.

I say rent/charter a boat the size you want and do all the work yourself and you will learn what works for you and your family. About two weeks should give you some idia of what it could be like.

I feel if you can fly, then you can or learn to drive a 80? footer as good as any of us. well maybe no as good as me LOL. It's all the other stuff that will kill you. But it can be done.

This is probably the best "real world" advice in the thread. If my better half were sitting here, I'd have her respond, because until your wife is very experienced she will realize a huge amount of anxiety around the docks. That anxiety will be noticed by the children. It will also grind on your marriage!

I'm speaking from experience. We've owned our 58' LRC (52 tons) for 2 years now. It was our first "large" boat (the last one was a 25' CC!). While I've been around boats all my life and have extensive knowledge of a lot of facets surrounding boats/boating/cruising, my wife had NONE. After buying Kismet, we spent 4 days/3 nights on board with 2 captains. Navigating, cruising, docking, anchoring, line handling, maintenance, etc. This was required by the insurance company, but more importantly, I wanted my wife to enjoy her little ship (my 7 year old daughter too).

After those 4 days, insurance company released us and we were on our own. The next 6 months of weekend and a few week long cruises were absolutely nerve wracking! While I LOVED every minute - she spent the entire cruising day worrying about how it would go around the docks.

Fast forward two years. We're both very competent while on the water. She can captain the boat, chart courses, work the radios, etc., but I still handle docking from the helm. She knows her lines, understands current and windage - and is generally pretty good around the docks. Sure, she'd prefer to toss a line to a dock hand, but she can easily secure the entire boat solo.

Two very important side notes:

1. Our 7 year old understands that she's to stay in her forward berth and "play" until docking is complete. No problems there! Dolls, Wii, iPad, etc. keep her plenty busy. (when cruising, she's at the helm or fb with me charting courses and recording our adventures via camera/video).

2. The ability of husband & wife to communicate effectively is paramount. There WILL be tense moments. A boat is no place for yelling and condescending. For boats this size, make use of EarTecs or similar communication devices. Speak in a calm firm tone, but never yell. This is one area that the Admiral and I have always excelled.

My advice (with my limited experience and knowledge): Stay under 60'. There are plenty of great boats, with terrific cruising layouts in the 50'-60' range. Good luck in your quest!

Just a few experiences I have had. Pilots have been THE hardest to teach on how to run a yacht, they have a lot of BAD habits that you have to break. They origionally think you just run a straight line and tend to forget in a yacht you have draft issues and have to go around islands and such like that. Running in the ocean, I've had them stare at and play with the electronics for several minutes, while doing 25 knots and running up the beach in South Florida without looking out the front windows once. Because they're used to never having to look out of the windows in a plane. They also are way overly confident, and think that running a boat is easy because they fly a plane and tend to want to try to power out of situations (like a cross current) like they would in their plane instead of using the gears. They tend to think about wind, and never remember that current.

I have an owner whose yacht I manage. He charters regularly 100'+ with a crew of 4 or so, has a few smaller boats like a 32' sea ray. Well he bought a 55' express without really seeing what his wife's needs and interests are. He HAD the intentions of learning how to run the boat himself and plans of taking trips with him and his wife, and college aged kids and wanted something they could "handle themselves". He bought the boat at the FLIBS last year. WELL, after the first time they took it out themselves locally, the wife has NO interest in getting the lines, putting out fenders, or doing anything mate related. She also hates the boat because of that, and with me on-board on a trip, the boat is really 1 stateroom short for their needs. They do take it out for 1/2 a day locally. He loves running the boat, but also has come to the realization that when I'm not on board, he cannot interact with his friends, guests, and it's more work than he is happy doing. Needless to say the boat was put up for sale about 4 months ago. They've figured out they really need a 70' MY with 3 guest staterooms, a full beam master with king size bed, AND CREW to have an enjoyable yachting experience.

Personally with the poster, I don't understand what aversion you have to having crew on board, they only add to the experience in too many aspects to write about. You want privacy, put them in a hotel room on trips and have the boat to yourself. Running a 64 footer takes your full attention at all times, unless you're really good at running it, you probably won't even be able to have a normal conversation with your buddy in the seat next to you. Are you going to rinse and chamois dry a boat of that size after running at cruise for most of the day? Are you going to want or know how to fix something in a 105 degree engine room? Honestly, I'd recommend getting a full time captain the first year or two and learning how to proficiently run the boat and learn what it takes to detail and maintain it. Then at that point, you could go to a full time Mate that could keep it clean and find one that can repair things and do maintanence.......Either way it's not a 42' raceboat that you put on a trailer. You're comparing a 2 bedroom condo to a 10,000 sq foot house when it comes to all of the systems.

When we got the 59, I got essentially the same advice.
Followed it. And it worked / continues to work well.
Captain still comes and goes as needed for that boat, but the mate (who in effect could captain the boat himself) is the lifesaver for all other things mentioned in Capt J's post.

I've had the same experience - bad habits and an assumption that they have a head start - I was going to post the very same comment

In an airplane, no matter what happens, the pilot doesn't leave his seat. That couldn't be less like running a 70'-80' boat.

Also, there's a lot more a guy needs to know to run a boat than how to dock it. Sure, docking is important. It's the part where you can wreck someones else's property, but it's only for a couple of minutes when you go out, and a couple of minutes when you come back in. It's during all the hours in between, and the surprises, that's when you'll see the wisdom of a crew.

Here's a scenario from a recent trip - crew only - two of us - both of us qualified to operate the boat - onboard a 2008 85' American built motoryacht crossing from mainland Mexico to Baja - middle of the night, weather building, nowhere to hide so all we could do was slow down. A short, deep swell, hitting us at a bad angle. Wind. Very uncomfortable ride... then, in an instant the full size refrigerator/freezer launches itself out from its built-in cabinet space... this also blows out the water supply line for the icemaker. So water is shooting out of the wall behind the reefer (which is sliding around the galley) ...the water flow can't be stopped... the water system needs to be shut down in the engine room. Access to the engine room is outside, down the steps from the aft deck, onto the swim platform, and through a door in the transom. It's rough. It's dark. We're a hundred miles from shore. And there's a side-by-side refrigerator banging around the galley of a rather nice six million dollar boat.

In the end, a typical run from point A to point B... however, had the crew been my wife and kids? ...ah, not so much.

Not a problem anymore: The airline pilot business is going downhill in a hand basket: Furloughs, pay-cuts, ex-wifes, etc..No money for a yacht, or lessons on how to drive one..

Should have been a plastic surgeon instead..A nip and a tuck here and there, $50K a month and no jet-lag and cranky stews...

A lot of yacht owners are pilots........not commercial pilots for a living, but pilots none-the-less......That's what most of us are talking about.

Aha, Private Pilots, (PPL)

Yeah, that is probably the way to go, fly for pleasure rather than aggravation.

lousy design... are you saying they buried the electrical panel in the engine room and the breakers for the water pumps couldn't be turned off without going outside?

Yes... it's a lousy design.

reminds me a of Grand Alaskan i looked at a few years back... it had a nice watertight door between the ER and the Lazarette but the hatch from the lazarette to the deck could only be opened from the inside of the laz. So, let's say the lazarette was to flood for some reason (problem with a thru hull, rudder stuffing box, etc...) the only way to get in there... is to flood the engine room.

Years back, while taking a closer look at the factory of an unnamed sailboat builder, I came across a similar scenario. I started heading topside and the salesman asked if I was / why done looking at the boat in such a short time. I explained it was apparent the people who designed the boat don't also work on them, or sail them. He replied with nothing more than a confused look. I pointed out the item and walked him through a basic scenario. His look went from confused to alarmed. It was truly a priceless look on his face. Three years later they changed the design.

I have a 43 sportfish (Cabo) and I operate it regularly by myself. It has no thrusters, just twins.

Docking a boat single handed is easy enough with a little practice, skill and care. It's keeping the boat where you want it while you move from the helm to the bow, to the stern, to the dock, back onto the boat, etc. and setting it up while you're drifting around that gets a bit harder in the wrong boat; or doing it while your incapacitated due to an injury or illness.