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Requirement to be licensed?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by DFWX, May 8, 2008.

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  1. DFWX

    DFWX New Member

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    Is there a length limitation for operation of a private yacht without the owner/operator having some sort of "drivers" license? The yacht would not be used for any commercial purpose or carrying any passengers for any fee. Just personal usage.
  2. DFWX

    DFWX New Member

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    Also does age of boat matter? Ours are 50s and 60s wooden yachts (Trumpys)
  3. No license is needed in the US for personal use until you get to super mega giga fragilistic size. "Personal use" are the key words here, a real estate broker should not take clients to see water front houses on a boat, stuff like that.
    Sometimes insurance companies require licensed captains when the USCG does not.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    DFWX,
    Your posts intrigue me. Your profile says you have (3) boats, a 27, a 42 and a 46 in Daytona where you're miles from any inlet. You write about using Russian reject guns & guns you leave in salt water and now have multiple classic Trumpy's in the 50 and 60 foot range that are used strictly for private/ non-commercial activities yet you don't know about licensing requirements. What's the story here? My leg feel a little stretched.
  5. DFWX

    DFWX New Member

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    The past is different from the present. The 27 footer is a towable twin fiberglass cruiser in Texas. The 47 footer is on the St John River, which leads to the coast. The 42 footer was in Daytona Beach but now is down at Fort Lauderdale.

    Years ago (many) I had a Huchkins "Fairform Flyer Piscatory" 45' that became my cruising boat.

    I seemed to remember something of there being a length limit for which a license is required and was wondering what it is. The topic of firearms is a completely different matter and how I dealt in the past and present on the question of whether it is legal to have a firearm on board - which is not only a question of foreign jurisdictions, but now state, local, federal park, state park and almost endless others. I'm not much for keeping up with or having regulations dictate my life and certainly not my safety. But as I explore where to cash 'em all in and go for 1 very large yacht instead, I had a question of just how long can I go as that is not a regulation I could get away with breaking.

    Otherwise I don't understand the sense of a contradiction. I've been boating and yachting going on nearly 4 decades. Times change. The number of rules grow.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That makes a bit more sense. It sounded like we may have a junior here spouting trash, especially the guns. If you look back into that thread you'll see some stupid stuff (like realistic toy guns) obviously from a kid trying to sound cool and I don't like to see that encouraged for fear some kid will get themselves hurt trying to impress. I probably should have realized. (BTW,What I posted on that thread falls into the catagory of do as I say not as I've done):cool:
    So yeah, no license, but the insurance companies are starting to require captains, and don't let anything that can be construed as payment happen or you may find yourself without coverage if there's ever a claim.
  7. DFWX

    DFWX New Member

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    Understood about the toy guns. I'd rather have a hammer than a gun that won't fire - toy or real. Contrary to the movies, pointing a firearm at someone does not cause them to freeze. They will charge at you or run - and will charge at you as often as run from you. Rather have a hammer than a knife too. A couple of 12 ga. flare guns could do some damage and might end-run around a no-firearms rule (or might be considered a firearm other places).

    I was serious in my view of cheap, throw away firearms if necessary for personal safety as an option of traveling dangerous waters but also where you firearms are prohibited (or you are unsure if they are legal.) I have quietly slipped a few (very few) old rifles and shotguns over the opposite side rather than address the issue. For example, if you are traveling through a national or state park waterway, is there some risk in having firearms as many prohibit firearms in the park? I'll throw away a hundred or two dollars to avoid the question.

    Though this many years ago (two decades), in foreign waters I would grease them up and drop them over in shallow water before entering the port, leaving a small float (large bobber) with a line down to them. When departing, would then dive down and retrieve them (couldn't find the location once). The cost of that old rifle and shotgun combined was less than $150 plus $20 in ammo in zip lock bags. I'd rather just toss that much money than cross my fingers and hope I'm up on the local laws of the hour for every jurisdiction I go through and everywhere I might anchor or dock.

    On insurance, insuring a wooden boat for lose of or damage to the boat is nearly impossible anyway unless surveyed as truly pristine and generally as the result of work and routine maintenance done by a yard. That is one of the numerous reasons why they are generally cheap and usually sell for less than the sum of their parts if dismantled and sold for parts. Though wooden yachts are more demanding (much) of attention, they also offer much in the way of customizing and brightwork.

    Fortunately I like wooden boats, which also then allows us to afford sizes we otherwise could not and a Trumpy is not a Chris Craft woodie. Less than 500 Trumpys were ever made across 6 decades and less than 100 remain, so they are obscure collectables that also are functional.

    My post was mostly self pondering of what direction I'm headed in yachting as I enter semi-retirement. One large yacht might make more sense than 2 or 3 medium to small size ones, particularly since we are about decided to shift to primarily a liveaboard lifestyle. However with fuel costs going as they are, keeping the twin inboard 27' cruiser that we can tow might make sense as an option for short term, distance "coastal cruising."

    The cost of towing a boat from Florida to New England is much less than travel by water and also allows covering distance quickly for shorter time period adventures. The 27 footer is fiberglass cabin cruiser but with a fine full mahogany interior - an older twin inboard/outboard Chaparall, which are a cut above Bayliners (not to hurt anyone's feelings who owns a Bayliner.)

    I tend to disregard regulations instead to decide upon what I want/need and generally get away with it. If I'm in another state and feel like fishing, I will. If
    I see a boat is approaching that might be DNR I'll quietly slip the pole off the side if I'm unsure if my fishing license for that state is expired. But a requirement for someone to be licensed is not one I could get away with, particularly on the inner coast, the Keys and offshore from the lower East Florida coast.

    I just seemed to remember there was an 85 or 100 foot limit, but not sure where I got that from. I had spent some time looking at USCG website material, but wasn't finding an answer. Looking around further, it appears the USCG allows up to 164' if strictly for recreational/personal use.

    Thanks for your time replying.
  8. HONGKONG

    HONGKONG Senior Member

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    This is definitely off topic, but I personally find it sublimely refreshing that in this day of perceived and perhaps over-regulation, we can treat lives led in malingering and in contravention of the laws of the land and turn it into public fodder and acceptance. While your forthrightness of your transgressions is illuminating, what your not revealing is what haunts........
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    There is no requirement for a license for an owner to run the vessel recreationally. However, insurance companies are now the ones that are starting to regulate. They will ask for a resume and if you go up by a large jump say 42 feet to 65 or 70 feet, they will tell you that you need a 100 ton master in order for them to insure you or your premiums will be 50% more.
  10. sharkbait

    sharkbait New Member

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    ]I'M a newby from australia, so i don't know much.
    the issue of guns in other ports and countries is covered in other posts on this site...

    My question is what certificates and licences (NOT passports and visas)
    does a person need to skipper your own private yacht under 50ft to other countries around the word?[
    I hold a boat licence (passed tests etc last friday LOL) in nsw australia & was told this is all i need... (+VHF Lic if you own one)
    If true I find this to be crazy even for a insane goverment.

    can someone give me the right facts?
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It depends on where you are from, where you re going and most importantly which flag is the boat flying

    GNERALLY speaking the vessel flag will set licensing requirements although other factors will come into play incl owner nationality and how long you are in a location

    For jnstance a US citizen can run his 80 footer in Europe without a license while he couldn't drive a 15hp 12 foot French registered inflatable...
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    If you were in NZ and I imagine Australia has similar rules and regs.

    If the boat was locally registered it would have to undergo a safety survey before you would be cleared to sail foreign.

    The three NZ issued yacht tickets I hold and remember being required are/were Boatmaster followed by Yachtmaster Coastal and the Yachtmaster Ocean.

    I would say no matter what your bit of paper says your insurance co ( if you have one)will have an opinion on it that might differ from a lot of peoples.
  13. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    I belive the US Coast Guard requires a Licensed Captain on a private vessel over 199 tons...
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes a Yacht or recreational craft over 200GT under the USCG has to have a licensed master (which could be the owner).
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    in search of

    I kind of feel; anybody driving 100 plus tons really needs to prove he can drive 100+ tons weather it be a USCG ticket or an insurance companies test, even if it is personal.

    At the time I got my ticket, it was explained Anybody could drive the QE-II, as long as there were NO paying passengers on board. Past that, no intelligence was required.

    It's obvious that there is no intelligent life operating any sized boats here in redneckville (Jacksonville) FL.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree, a 100 tons can do a lot of damage both physically and financially to others. I also agree it should be the cutoff. I've seen some dinner party boats that were pushing 300 feet, that were 99 GT's because a marine architect played with the rule book when building it. So that safety equipment and also Captains were cheaper.

    For example I've seen a 75' Hatteras MY that came in at 74 GT, and a 76' Lazzara which is smaller physically come in at 101GT.
  17. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    If it is documented and operates beyond the boundary line.
  18. tirekicker11

    tirekicker11 Senior Member

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    In Hong Kong the foreign captain of a foreign vessel can drive his boat to marina or anchorage at arrival from foreign waters. He is however not allowed to use it's tenders to ferry people up and down. To cruise around Hong Kong waters he'll need to apply for a cruising permit that clearly states where he's going and at what times.
  19. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    The tests which are required to become a 100tom master have no on the water section, nor do they have any section which proves your boat handling ability. In other words there is no "prove you can drive" part of the USCG exam, and there are plenty of "captain crunch" ticket holders.
    I'm sure there are plenty of both intelligent and otherwise captains in the Jacksonville area- redneck or not.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    There is however a Sea Service certification. Hopefully (although not always) by the time they have the time in to qualify for 100GT they learned a few things. Under that they can pretty much certify their time by just owning a 26 footer.