Night Vision Navigation

I have a good amount of night cruising with the FLIR system. There is no way you can see anywhere near 2000 meters with it. It's good to about 300 maybe 400 yards in front of you. Also, you'd have to stare at it the entire time to avoid running something unlit over. It's a good aid, but basically at 10-12 knots, by the time you see something on the flir, you're going to run it over.....or **** near..at least in the 103' I do transits on.......

More night vision thoughts

There's an interesting although dated blog entry here: http://kensbook.com/aspx/launcher.aspx?msgid=Home&beid=16351.

I've been involved in FLIR and related projects for military apps, and agree the ability to identify something at speed in time to react is an issue. That said, I've been able to discern a seal from a pot buoy at 30 knots, and avoid either (in a 9M boat).

Field of View is a big issue. You can get a gimballed stabilized FLIR that can count threads on a uniform at 1000 yards.... but your looking through a straw and its not a useful navigation tool. FLIR also makes a "wide-eye" fixed camera with a 60 degree field of view, which is great because it shows enough of what's in front to allow one to identify the "clear" areas. But... and a big but... the distance at which things are truly visible is not good for high speeds.

For close in areas (harbors) or doing things like picking up people overboard in the dark, thermal cameras are a huge asset.

There's lots of companies besides FLIR, and I've had mixed luck with them. I now spec only FLIR for my customers, expensive but you get what you pay for, but only in the non-recreational (>$10K) market...

I agree with Capt. J ... it's a great aid, but I would not rely blindly upon it.

Good point re: image intensification. FLIR is purely thermal/IR with an additional day/lowlight channel, most of the folks I work with will wear Night Vision Goggles, and then use the FLIR for zooming in on things... which then leads to having all displays NVIS compatible, another whole area...

An interesting issue is that IMO approved nav lights on a boat will generally make NVGs bloom, basically rendering them ineffective. There are solutions which one can use on one's own craft, but you can't control whats put on other folks boats. I'm not sure how all that plays out on Current Corp equipment.

Chuck

actually it has 2 cameras - thermal & low light ...

the way i've setup mine is i display thermal on one screen & low light on the other ...

also, when u go into surveillance mode, the unit scans about 30 degrees (i think) either side continuously.

My first FLIR experience was 2 weeks ago - one of my clients installed one on his 42' Tiara (!) expecting it to enable him to go out at night w/out yours truly (me).

For me, I was thoroughly impressed by what you COULD see with the FLIR in IR mode. As we were coming back to the breakwater well after dark, a smaller Grady White or Boston Whaler passed a 100 yards or so to our PORT side and continued on ahead of us. With our naked eyes, we could barely make out anything but the nav lights. With the FLIR we could very easily make out the boat, the wake, the heading, etc.

For the owner, he was a little disappointed you couldn't use the thing to drive by (no surprise there). With 2 Raymarine C120 displays, we had one on GPS and one on FLIR (not my idea, I wanted the radar on the FLIR display). The FLIR is no substitute for radar - it's IN ADDITION to the radar that it can be of use or when navigating an anchorage or in a traffic area.

The field of view is VERY narrow and, like others have said, not very good for seeing more than a few hundred yards at most. We were trying to see if it could pick up marker buoys at 1000 yards or more and had no luck with that.

A great tool to add to the tool bag, but not as a stand alone item. I'll look forward to trying it out in other conditions - fog, rain, chop - but I won't be getting rid of the radar!

Why in the world didn't he split-screen the GPS with either the radar or FLIR? No way would I give up radar. It could also bring legal or financial consequesces should something happen.

Hi,

Where does it say that the smaller boats you run actually need to have a Radar fitted ?

No need to have it fitted, but if you have it you must use it.

FLIR kicks ass!

Aside from Pascal's post that he must have typed with his two big toes...(!)

It wasn't up to me to split or not split the screen - it was just an observation that the FLIR was a poor substitute for radar.

Aside from that, the FLIR was of little use while underway and was great once we hit the breakwater...

I think the whole issue of FLIR vs Radar is moot. Radar is a must... period, operating without it in marginal conditions is not an option. That said, IR can pick up stuff Radar doesn't, but only in close... and only some operators can drive and assimilate an IR display at the same time. My vote is that if you can afford both the $$ and the bridge space, go for it, but don't expect it to be magic sauce in and of itself....

Knew that. Owners just never cease to amaze me, especially when it comes to using radar. I once came out of B.I. in dense fog, saw a boat barreling down on me, from my port side, on the radar. Hailed on the VHF and sounded my signals. He never responded. I threw our boat into reverse just before his 50+ Azimut broke out of the fog a few feet ahead of me and went past my bow at over 20 kts., then disappeared again. He never even knew he almost hit a 51 Bertram. I look forward to getting to check out FLIR one day. More aids the better. Now we just have to convince people that these are for more than just being able to show one's friend they got a new toy. I doubt FLIR will replace radar any time soon, but I'm sure some will get it instead.

What if it doesn't work?

Would this stop you leaving port or if it failed underway would you put out a distress call?

Let's be serious now. From the cases I've read about on Google searches, what determines culpability in that situation is how long it was inoperable and what efforts were made to repair it. You're not required to use what you don't have. Using radar is considered as part of "maintaining a watch". If you've got eyes, you're expected to use them.

What kind of double-ended question is this, and what are your intentions by asking it? Honestly?????

If the radar is indeed working, the US coast guard requires you to use all applicable navigational aids that you have. If it is installed it should be on when underway. If it did fail while underway, then one would make do with the aids you do have or possibly anchor until fog lifted or something like that to maintain safety. If it's there I think the US Coast Guard requires it to be operational, but am not sure.

If it never existed then, no you do not need one by law. Just like if you have a life-raft installed, it had better be certified and current or you will be fined. However, if none exists then there is not a requirement of needing one, until you get to a certain tonnage.

Only vessels >1600 gross tons and towing vessels >12m in length are required to carry a radar.

Applicable regs:

33CFR164.53 Deviations from rules and reporting: Non-operating equipment.

33CFR164.82 Maintenance failure, and reporting