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Yacht Crew Insurance, Disability, Retirement and more

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by olderboater, May 3, 2017.

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  1. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Pascal, I have to agree. That was a big list of benefits. Business is maxed out when it comes to benefits. Some serious tort reform would change insurance needs dramatically and free up a lot of money for pay increases.
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    AICPA was shown as a very inclusive example. As a small business, we provide:
    • Health, Dental, and Vision
    • Life
    • Disability
    • Vacation and sick pay
    • 401 K
    • Tuition Reimbursement
    • Employee Assistance Program
    • Disaster Relief Program
    Now, before everyone says you can't do that and be profitable, I present to you Quiktrip, which is the finest convenience store chain I'm aware of and their employee benefit package.

    https://www.quiktrip.com/Jobs/Benefits

    If you can do it in convenience stores, surely it's possible for yacht owners.

    As to the questions of why the employer. Well, in most countries, it's the government with employers collecting for them. If you left it completely to individuals a huge percentage would have no coverage and then it comes right back to the taxpayer making up for their lack of coverage. Someone shows up at a hospital without insurance, they don't get sent away. They get treated at government owned hospitals. There's a public hospital in most cities.
  3. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Looks like a great benefit package, 50% matching 401K and all.
  4. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Alternative viewpoint: If individuals knew they would always be turned away if they show up at a hospital without insurance... they would have more incentive to fund it themselves. As it is, individuals know they'll get a free ride...

    OK, having said that, I expect there's a threshold on the low/no income side where humanity and compassion suggests need for a parachute. (But problems with most US parachute programs are the fraud, waste, abuse... and boated management and oversights expenses.)

    -Chris
  5. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Wow, I am impressed with Quiktrip's benefit program, almost as good as working for the taxpayer. Not sure how they afford it. Few small business's could ever consider a plan like that. Paid sabbatical, thought that was reserved for teachers and professors. Nothing is free, one way or the other the general public pays for all, either thru higher prices or taxes. Seriously, how do you think this will all end? Bankruptcy?
  6. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Some folks don't have the mental capacity to feed themselfs and their families: That also includes thinking ahead for an education and a good job, then a home, health insurance, THEN a big family with lots of babies who needs health care.
    Some are probably lazy and trying to milk the system for a free ride, in most cases however, they have IQs of a 13 year old and will never get ahead and be responsible.
    What are you going to do? Dump them in the ditch, or some kind of governement health care like all Federeal employees have, including senators, congressmen, military personnel, State and City employees, etc.?
    If not, then Government paid birth control could be a huge investment for the Tax Payer.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Quiktrip has been doing this since it's outset. We've copied in our business. It's a very successful approach. In a business where turnover is a huge problem, it isn't for them. They develop managers for new stores from within. They have employee loyalty. Their employees greet customers are smile and are upbeat and the stores are kept very clean.

    The fact is it works and it works very well. Now it requires a smart company, always looking to upgrade their approach. They added their own fresh food over time. They consistently sell more fuel and more inside than any other convenience stores. Their approach is not theory, it's their practical reality and proven.

    The most overlooked expense in retail is turnover. You spend money training each new employee. You also lose sales based on inexperienced employees and failure to develop good skills and attitudes. Brick and mortar stores had one way to survive in the age of online sales, but most failed to even grasp it. It was never cutting expenses, cutting back staff, or buying cheaper merchandise. It was and is providing superior customer service and a positive shopping experience.

    When many people look at the biggest costs of operating a retail store, they immediately see merchandise and labor and think the key is cutting costs on both. They overlook one huge cost, the sale not made. Not only the missed gross margin on that item, but ultimately a markdown and closeout at the end of the season and maybe even sold to distressed buyers after the season. One other huge advantage of treating employees well too is that employee theft and shoplifting decrease dramatically. When the employee feels invested and loyal, they keep their eyes open and remain attentive.

    When it comes to a yacht crew, if it's an owner's boat it's all about the experience and it's better with happy, well taken care of employees and with a continuation of the same employees. At the same time, it's amazing how it also pays in maintenance and operating cost savings. Also, the crew's care ends up playing a significant role in resale of the boat at the end. When chartering, there are far more boats available than demand. A good, experienced, dedicated crew can make the difference between being busy year round or chartering only a couple of times a year.

    Much of this is about a philosophy of the relationship of owner to employee or owner to crew.
  8. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    All sounds good and time will tell if implemented. From what I have seen on TV programs, yacht crews work hard and long hours. They deserve good pay.
  9. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    FWIW, I think that kind of philosophy should apply in the broader business sense to multiple relationships: owner, investors, board, management, wage employees, customers, gov't, etc. Balance and equilibrium can be good, imbalance can be bad.

    Possibly-provocative side note: I think one could make the argument that greedy employers caused trade unions. A logical backlash, which could have been predicted. (An then a whole bunch of other stuff happened, too.) But the basic premise of that argument is about the imbalances that occurred during the industrial revolution, and all of the imbalances that had existed before that... OK, wandering off-topic, sorry... :)

    -Chris
  10. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Yep... Didn't mean my earlier note as an argument for or against... just an alternative optic on the problem.

    -Chris
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I heard a very wise man say the following, very early in my career, and never forgot it.

    "We value three relationships in business very highly. The relationships with our customers, our suppliers, and our employees."

    Very simple, but few companies do that today. I think one of the reasons is that most companies are just businesses with names, investor owners, and not run by people who have the personal commitment and relationships. If your name was on the sign, you might tend to be more aware of relationships and reputation. Often people are invested financially but not their heart and soul.

    As a yacht owner, are you the king on a throne and everyone else just the lowly peasants there to serve you. Or, are these people you trust your life to and depend on, respect highly and want to take care of properly, people you care about.

    I see people every day who just bought a $3 million boat and yet want to negotiate price with a captain who quotes them $400 per day on a three day trip. He talks the captain down to $1000 for the three days and feels like he won. Won what? Why was it so important? Saved $200 at the expense of a hard working person working hard to make things enjoyable for you.
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  12. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yeah, and my ramblings was not really a direct answer to you, just a thought.
    Being half European and half American I have seen the health care system from both worlds: It seems other countries get more bang for their buck when it comes to general health, child mortality, life expectancy, etc.
    That being said, it is excellent in the US if you have good insurance.
    If you don't, you are S.... out of luck. :confused:
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The bottom line in this discussion, is do employers HAVE to provide health insurance, or is health insurance a perk that some employers choose to provide? I would think in this country it is considered a perk (on small companies with say under 100 employees).

    When it comes to yacht jobs. There is such a myriad of considerations for say a Captain. It's not just the pay, it's not just the perks, it's also the boat or type of boat, it's also the fit of the owner and Captain, it's also the usage of the boat. Some jobs can have the best criteria for a given Captain, but if the boat has guests on it 300 days a year OR sits 360 days a year, it's the totally WRONG job for that Captain.

    Now I don't think owners HAVE to provide health insurance. If the owner pays very well, well you can then go buy any insurance you want out of your own pocket.

    The other issue is people still quote the $1000 per foot per year for a Captain, from time to time. Heck, people were paying that back in the late 90's, when that was actually very good pay in that era. Now I see most are around $1200 per foot per year, some much more than that. But at $1000 per foot per year, the Captain is making a lot less than in 1999 when that money went a heck of a lot further.

    I don't really know the answer, providing health insurance would entice more crew to want to work for you. And, I'm sure if an owner really wants to hire you, you could barter that into your contract. But I really think an owner can choose to pay whatever they want and provide all of the benefits or none, and as crew you can decide whether or not you want to work for that person and take the job. Also in a boat that travels internationally a lot, even if only the bahamas, what good is US health insurance in that situation anyways, unless it's something severe enough that you fly home for treatment, but are you healthy enough to even fly home. The other issue is how long it takes to even get a doctors appointment in the US with insurance.
  14. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    It looks like Quiktrip's higher-cost benefits are for full-time employees. To really know if that's a great company benefit package, I'd have to know what the ratio of full-time to part-time employees is. The same is true for your small business.
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    That's true. Companies like West Marine, in their stores only the managers are full time employees and get benefits.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I think if you look at it more carefully, QT makes many of those benefits available to part time help too. Now, most of their employees are full time except for students.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    No, the bottom line is this: Do people in this industry have adequate health, disability and retirement coverage, however it is provided? And I think the answer is that due to the nature of the industry, the variety of different roles, the variety of boats, owners, flags and all the other variables, that many don't have any of the above or are missing one or two of them.

    Then that brings the next question of whether or how the industry could be doing a better job in this regard.

    There is a very sizable percentage of those in the industry who are not under any employer's plans, not part of any group, and not provided any benefits they might get in a more typical land job paying similarly. Whether employer pays or it's just offered, it's still there.

    My career was in a typical large business environment. My personal health coverage was paid and 25% toward family if they were to be covered. Short term disability was provided, and I had long term disability offered at a reasonable price. 401-K was optional but available with some match. Basic life insurance was paid and more was available including a conversion privilege when leaving the company.

    I'm sure to those of you who have spent all or most of your careers in this industry, you don't see the comparison to other industries and professions the same way I do. There are huge pros to the yachting profession, but some very significant cons as well. I guess the big question is whether there is something that could be done to make it better as a profession.

    The Maritime Labor Convention was a start toward some aspects of it. But most here are not in positions that it covers them and it is limited in only protecting one for the time they're working on a vessel.

    As to your question on the value of US health insurance, there are many companies providing both international and travel policies, even some policies perfectly paired with a US policy to cover everywhere except the US. There is a large variety. For instance one membership plan, not insurance, that if you're admitted to a hospital outside the country, they will provide medical transport from that hospital to a hospital of your choice, no strings attached.
  18. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    The health insurance standards vary so widely for international and US companies that comparisons are apples and oranges. I have seen EU companies that have offices in the US offer different standards based on region. I can honestly say the EU side has the better deal but there are a lot of factors at play. But any global public corporation is now driven to mainly satisfy stockholder returns, so the motivations can be worlds apart. EU works councils or labor unions have a stronger voice than US labor unions which only are heard in a few select industries, so no one is really looking out for the average guy/girl/family.

    There is no arguing that Health Insurance should be available to all, and it comes down to who pays for it. If there are not enough payers, the government steps in with premium assistance, but the assistance is born by the taxpayer, and in our US system, mainly the middle class bears this burden, and it is shrinking as a result of it. For us to copy an EU or Canadian Health System is a great idea in principle, but the practice falls apart when you consider the fact that the US tax system is so different and IRS centric. You would first have to re-do (abolish?) the IRS in order to have a chance at integrating a truly comprehensive national health care system. But the tax lobbyist's (attorneys) provide road blocks to this type of large series of fortunate events, the IRS is a huge jobs program with a level of ineptitude that one can not imagine, and the politicians lack courage to represent the people that put them into office. Obamacare essentially shifted funds from Medicare to Medicaid to give it a start, but the system is bound to financially fail as passed and that is very frustrating for the US.

    Without a tax revolution / reset there will never be consensus on how the Health Care premiums are fully funded, and we will be having this discussion for all of our lives and our children's as well, which is quite unfortunate.
  19. leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    I looked at it more carefully, and I didn't see anything different. From QuickTrip's website: "Part-Time Employees may enroll in the standard QuikTrip Benefits Plan at their second anniversary, given they’ve met the minimum number of hours worked." The way I interpret that quote is that a part-time employee has no good benefits package for at least two years; I say "at least two years" because of the additional requirement of meeting some undisclosed number hours worked. Did I interpret that statement from their website correctly?

    I can't agree with you that most of their employees are full time. According to QuikTrip, there a five full-time managers per store and an undisclosed number of part-time clerks per store. I suspect that there are more clerks than managers, meaning more part-time employees. I'm not including warehouse, bakery, and commissary workers in the part-time/full-time tally, because I can't find anything yet about the number of those employees. I'm still looking into this, but I would appreciate you directing me to the info that leads you to say "most of their employees are full time except for students."
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    To answer the question. Healthcare is available to all yacht crew. The question is, whether or not they want to pay for it. Whether the owner provides or participates in it or not, anyone can get health care insurance on their own.

    Now OB you have a huge misconception on private health care. Since obamacare passed it has become largely un-achievable or un-affordable for most middle class people. Since 2015, individual health care coverage has at least doubled in cost, if not more, and deductables have also tripled or quadrupled. Prior to 2015 a 7,000 or $10,000 deductable was almost unheard of, now it is the norm.