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Captain's Coat..?

Discussion in 'Yacht Captains' started by Norseman, Jul 25, 2007.

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  1. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Well, talking varnsih here, not the coat with the 4 stripes...:D

    Time for a complete strip job and found a proffesional who is doing an excellent job so far.

    He wants to use Epifanes Clear and swear 15 coats will last 2 years, but still recommends 2 maintenance coats per yer.

    I am for trying something new, the previous stuff was Bristol Finish and although it last long, it needed careful prep and application.
    My previous varnish guy was not up the taks with the Bristol and we got cracks and separation, etc.

    So, what is the opinions and experiences with Epifanes in the Florida and Bahamas sun?
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    In the southern France we used Epifanes (mostly) and we used to have 12 coats, with 2 new every second month. But still it was going down so we should probably have added 4 coats every second month...

    I am still using Epifanes now in Sweden but here it is enough with 6 coats and 2 new each spring...:)
  3. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    We use Epiphanes thinned with Captain's. Looks great and we do maintenance twice a year.
    BTW- We're in Florida/Bahamas for about 8 months/year
  4. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Ouch, 2 new coats every second month...?

    I worked for Offshore Yachts a few years ago and remember they used Epifanes on the external teak with Polyurethane coatings on top of the varnish.
    I could go that route too, but would like feedback from Offshore Yachts owners or captains.
    How long does it last in the sun, etc..?

    Maintenance coats every 2 moths is too much.

    In my younger days in the Caribe on a wooden boat, we used traditional amber varnish and had to lay a coat on every 3 to 4 months.
    (Pain in the butt, hoping this Epifanes stuff would be much more lasting)
  5. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Hmm, mixing 2 different brand of varnish...?

    I am ready for twice a year as well now that I found a guy that is very good, charges a reasonable wage, and is available whenever I need him.

    (His phone number will remain a secret...:D )
  6. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    My varnish guy also uses Epifanes, thinned with Schooner. Luckily, my boat lives in a covered shed year 'round here on the Chesapeake so we only recoat once a year.
  7. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    I have used Alwgrip High Solids Clear over natural tung oil varnish, and was not impressed by the results after a year or so. It looked great for a while, did not check or craze after 4 or 5 months in the Caribbean sun like varnish would, but when we recoated after a year it just did not have that "wet" glow that fresh varnish has.
    And, it was impossible to blend repair areas.

    Here in New England we are using straight Epifanes. Generally the brightwork gets a hard sanding in the fall, followed by 3 or so coats. Then the boat is put away for the winter, and in the spring we put on one or 2 more coats, and from mid May til late October it holds up fine. So, on average we are applying 4 to 6 coats a year, with 6 or 7 months of active use.
  8. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Hmm, twice a year in the North East...?

    Does it go dull at the end of the season, or is the hard sanding and the 3 coats just preventive maintenance?

    I would guess the sun in Florida and the Bahamas would require a doubling of the New England maintenance..:(

    Oh well, not going back to Bristol Finish anyway. That stuff was hard to repair and it got strange blisters that would grow bigger and when popped there was nothing underneat. (No water or air pressure, the stuff just lifted)
    The manufactor would probably say that I did not apply it properly and he would be right. Hard to do a perfect job on external brightwork in the tropics except in an air condtioned hangar.
    That is where varnish is a bit more forgiving than the high tech coatings who promises a longer life.

    My varnish expert promises 2 years with 15 coats of Epifanes. With what I have read here on these pages I would be hesitant to try it.
    Right now in the middel of the strip job and the hours are rolling away and we are not even half there yet.

    A couple of preventive coats now and then would save another strip job down the road..Way to go and thanks for the comments.
  9. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    Yes, at the end of the season it shows some crazing, and is no longer beautifully glossy.
    The hard sanding and buildup of coats in the fall is to sand out the crazing, and give a good buildup.

    Then, those 3 coats cure up nicely over the winter, giving a good base to add one or 2 more fressh coats in the spring to get us through the season.

    Whenever someone strips down to bare wood I insist that the first 2 or 3 coats be thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits. Some varnishers like to use sanding sealer to fill the grain quickly, but I feel this is not good in the long term.

    15 coats sounds great, but I would not let them apply all 15 in a short period of time. Varnish continues to off gas solvents as it cures over time, if you have 15 green coats on top of rach other they will not be able to off gas, andf I have seen this lead to problems.

    If it were my boat, I would ask the varnisher to do 3 coats of 50/50 after stripping to bare wood, and instead of sanding between coats I would use 3M synthetic steel wool to burnish away any flaws. Then, 2 or 3 full strength coats, with a light scuffing beyween each coat with 220 grit Tri-M-Ite sandpaper.

    Then, let it sit for a week or 2. Then, light burnishing with synthetic steel wool, then several more full strength coats with light sanding or burnishing beyween coats.
    By the time you have more than 10 or 12 coats on, it should be looking pretty nice. At about coat 12 I would stop for a month and let it cure up hard. Then, give a good sanding with 180 if necessary, otherwise 220, followed by several more coats.

    Then, you should be good for 4 or 5 months, depending on the time of year.
    The sun in Florida is far harsher than what I see here in New England.
    When I used to be a mate on a boat in the Caribbean, it was one coat every 6 weeks to keep it looking right.
  10. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Bingo.

    That is the plan:

    My varnish man has considerable experience in the field, but he is new to me.
    He told me this story when Epifanes first came to the US: The local rep handed him a can and said, try this!
    My varnish guy were pleased with the product and never looked back. (Now sure how long ago, but probably 20+ years with using only Epifanes)

    He explained how he thins the first 5 coats, gradually increasing to full octane. Then 8 coats of varnish, then he thins again for the last couple of coats.
    (Not sure of the logic on that last part, but him being far more experienced than me, I will let him do his own thing.)

    This guy have worked on 125' wooden yachts and done as many as 25 coats on a single mast.

    Tall stories, but so far I am very impressed with the workmanship and attention to details. He is also a hard worker putting in 8 to 9 hours in the July Florida sun without taking a break.
    Based on that, I will let him do it his way and I am fairly confident on the results.

    (My varnish guy came highly recommended from my previous varnish guy: A lad I had to fire as he was too slow: 29 hours prep for a maintenance coat and no wet brush yet. We stayed in touch however on him doing other jobs, washing and waxing boats and so on. My previous varnish guy recommended this old timer with the Epifanes experience and that is why I started this thread: Is Epifanes as good as my new guy says.....? Based on the above replies..Perhaps not..?)
  11. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    I am no guru on varnish in fact I think I just get by, but epifanes has been my prefered varnish for a long time. And it sounds like your guys method is pretty close to mine, I am not a fan of mixing brands and types of varnish on the one job.
  12. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Thanks Garry.

    I will add your comments to my data base..Every comment on the Epifanes subject is good right now.

    (The varnish job is on my own boat, not a client's or a customer's or somebody else's boat)
  13. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    IMHO, if going with a true natural varnish, Epifanes is the way to go. Multiple coats wil give a darker, richer hue to your brightwork than a lighter varnish like Schooner or Captain's.

    It is also more difficult to apply than Schooner or Captain's. I personally have decent enough brushing skills to apply Epifanes in the New England climate and produce a passable finish, but there is no way I could do the same in Florida. Especially in the summer.

    However, the pro's have the brushing skills to do so. I learned to varnish from an old gentleman from Antigua named "Mr. Green", he did the Caribbean circuit and Newport back in the 80's when I was just a nipper... man, could that guy put on a coat of varnish.

    Most likely the reason why your varnisher is thinning the last coats is to give a better "finish coat". These days, to me they are all "build coats" and not "finish coats", so I disagree with that tactic.
    Post some pics when you are done !!
  14. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Man is this a small world or what.

    Guess who is on my boat right now sanding away?

    Mr. Green :D
  15. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    Wow.
    Please give him my regards, he knew me when I was mate aboard "Fantasy", a Cheoy Lee Motorsailor in St. Thomas.
    You have the best of the best working on your yacht. (imho)
  16. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yes, I am very pleased so far.

    He shows up at 0630 every day and keeps plugging along doing an excellent job.

    I will say hello from you..
  17. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    The famous Mr. Green, varnish expert as well as a gentleman

    Attached Files:

  18. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Digging up an old thread here:
    Mr. Greene did a nice job.
    We put on 15 coats of Epiphanes with 5 more after a few months.
    Then from 2007 to 2013, five maintenance coats per year.
    The sanding and prep was where the hours went on the maintenance coats, hence I had him do 5 instead of 2.
    We did this every May and at the end the varnish was dull and slightly crazed, but I decided to go that route in preparation for the strain summer sun.
    It came to $1,000 per year, all included.
    Sold the boat in 2013.
    Here is recent picture before I sold it:

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  19. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Looks nice but I have to say I'm at the point of being completely over varnish brightwork. Never again do I want to deal with it, pay for it, or even look at it. Smooth sanded clean nautural Teak for me.
  20. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    image.jpeg
    Me too.
    Way past varnished external teak in my life..
    That being said, I briefly considered the trawler on the picture, but more teak than God could maintain. $42k is not a bad price however..
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015